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The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:35 pm 
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It doesn't seem particularly in line with 40k though, where CC is the greatest weakness of Crisis suits, as their CC abilities are markedly inferior to their shooting capability!




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Moscovian
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:59 pm 
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I edited my last statement.  I am with you, E&C, that the CC thing doesn't seem right.

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Jstr19
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:47 pm 
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I would still much rather prefer a rule that allowed Jetpack troops to avoid engagements. which is why I have been using a toned down version of the current rule allowing a 10cm move after shooting. It has always been my experience that crisis suits and stealth suits when in an engagement loose and loose BIG even when using their FF value. I think that by changing the rule to allow them to always use their FF value even when close combated would make the unit much too vulnerable.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:54 pm 
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Jstr has a point, the FF-only proposal would result in a lot more Engage actions against Suits that actually reach Firefight range (Currently they just jump back and leave FF range entirely).

He also makes good points about the 10cm post-shoot move. :)

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Jstr19
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:11 pm 
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The 10cm ater shooting rule does hace alot to do with avoiding assaults. A crisis formation can get to within 30cm of more than a few bases of the enemy formation fire 13 shots at them and the move 10cm to get out of engagement range, and it has the advantage over the current rule of only being able to be used once per turn.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:21 pm 
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Move 10cm after move have practically nothing what-so-ever to do with avoiding assaults.


Don't be silly; The standard infantry Engagement range is 30cm (15 move + 15 firefight). A Crisis formation can jump within 30cm and fire, and then hop out again with its 10cm post-shot move.

Under the current system, this only occurs when the Crisis Suits are Engaged, forcing the enemy to basically junk his activation (He can Engage and chase the suits out of the area knowing that he'll never catch them, or he can shoot at the crisis suits (Doubtless in a terrain feature), play the Tau's ranged fire tune and lose the game).

This proposal is actually liberating for both players, I wish you could at least admit that possibility, rather than dismissing it out of hand as a direct rules port.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Wouldn't it be easier to learn ?to set up assaults against tau jump pack troops better rather than change rules because a few cannot get to grips on how to counter something.

If your assault troops only have an engage range of 30cm (15move + 15 FF) then get your troops inside 20 cm before calling the engage then even with 10 cm movement the tau are still in range to FF.With most armies having assault troops with decent assault moves (Rough Riders 40cm,SM Assault Troops 30cm,Stormboys 30cm etc.)I cannot see how players keep making the mistake of engaging knowing the tau can get away when they could get there troops closer before calling the assault.

I've even had a couple of games (quite a while ago so were probably with older version of the tau rules) were I've set up an opponent with a "faked" assault,called an engage with a formation knowing my opponents stealth suits would jump back to a nearby fire warrior formation thus making the initial assault pointless (too many FF attacks to come from tau) then called an intermigled assault on the two tau formations now knowing they have to stay in coherency .
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:45 pm 
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I've even had a couple of games (quite a while ago so were probably with older version of the tau rules) were I've set up an opponent with a "faked" assault,called an engage with a formation knowing my opponents stealth suits would jump back to a nearby fire warrior formation thus making the initial assault pointless (too many FF attacks to come from tau) then called an intermigled assault on the two tau formations now knowing they have to stay in coherency .


Isn't intermingled called before the jump back move?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:46 pm 
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It's not liberating to me as you seem to believe :;):. After running some scenarios of it's use in my head, I believe it's not as good. I'm not dismissing things that easily.


I encourage you to play half a dozen games with this, or any other proposed replacements, rather than theory-hammering.




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dptdexys
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:01 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 01 2007,15:45)
QUOTE
I've even had a couple of games (quite a while ago so were probably with older version of the tau rules) were I've set up an opponent with a "faked" assault,called an engage with a formation knowing my opponents stealth suits would jump back to a nearby fire warrior formation thus making the initial assault pointless (too many FF attacks to come from tau) then called an intermigled assault on the two tau formations now knowing they have to stay in coherency .


Isn't intermingled called before the jump back move?

Yes it is,sorry should have worded the post better.
After the initial formation calling an assault and the Tau jumping away I then retained with a different formation to do an intermingled assault.
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Dobbsy
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:40 pm 
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Wouldn't it be easier to learn  to set up assaults against tau jump pack troops better rather than change rules because a few cannot get to grips on how to counter something.
If your assault troops only have an engage range of 30cm (15move + 15 FF) then get your troops inside 20 cm before calling the engage then even with 10 cm movement the tau are still in range to FF.With most armies having assault troops with decent assault moves (Rough Riders 40cm,SM Assault Troops 30cm,Stormboys 30cm etc.)I cannot see how players keep making the mistake of engaging knowing the tau can get away when they could get there troops closer before calling the assault.


Hallelujah!! someone who actually knows what he's talking about.!! Rock on Dexys!

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Jetpack rule is 'broken'
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:45 pm 
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Uh huh,

'rule's still broken.




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