Ah so it's focus is supposed to be Tau+goodies?

I personally Really enjoy this list, and have played it a few times, without the big bulky machines - I have only just recently acquired proper models for them.

I like being able to place my SC in a larger, less exposed formation, and bringing the markerlights inside the Fire Warrior formations make them much harder to single out.

In a recent game, an Orca with Fireblade fire warriors and Pathfinders landed in my friends DZ, and though they were pretty much instantly reduced to a smudgy greasy spludge on his iron warriors armors, they did manage to reduce two of his formations below scoring, and disrupted his game plan enough for me to just barely scrape in a win. This would have been much harder in the main list.

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Let there be code.

No, that's not what I'm saying.
Only Matt could tell you exactly his vision for this list. My understanding is that it's supposed to be a more modern list that uses a lot of the new models gw have come up with since the old list was made, and fits the Vior'La subfaction of the Tau Empire.

Also, you're implying that the new tau knight models are not 'really' tau, something you'll have to take up with gw, thank you.

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Let there be code.

im loving the list, i hope all the people i played didnt think it was over powered or boring. A few guys was talking about the KX139s being 225 and comparing it to a void spinner for 275. but to me wtf the void is in the eldar army that has everything.

kk so cancon

So i had 5 games.

1st against Tau

its on steves blog so you can have a read there

http://d6addiction.blogspot.com.au/

Second game i had was against jasons gargants.

GREAT GARGANT [800]
Mekboy Big Boss, 2 Soopa Zzap Gun, Mega Lobba

GARGANT [625]
Soopa Zzap Gun, Grot Guided Missile, Gatling Kannon

GARGANT [625]
2 Soopa Zzap Gun, Mega Lobba

SUPA STOMPA [325]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

SUPA STOMPA [325]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers

Not much really happened i tried to strip shileds wich i did with the supremacys then hit the gargant on the blitz which i knew would stay beind having the grot missiles. double 1s from the spacey so this buggered my plan. but then i was lucky enough he left to blitz to go after my bts. which i luckly save a heap of saves and marched on his blitz last turn. 2 - 0 to me. Blitz and take and hold.

Third game

Played against Dans steel legion.

Regimental HQ 550
Imperial Guard Supreme Commander
12xImperial Guard Infantry
7xChimera
Hydra

Tank Company 700
10xLeman Russ
Hydra

Super Heavy Tank Company 600
3xShadowsword
Hydra
Ogryns

Rough Rider Platoon 150
6xRough Riders

Sentinel Squadron 100
4xSentinel

Deathstrike Missile Battery 200
2xDeathstrike Missile Launcher

Flak Battery 150
3xHydra

Warhound Titan 275
Warhound Titan

Warhound Titan 275
Warhound Titan

Not a great deal happened from the steel legion being slow and me having enough blocking terrain.
I just picked off all the small activations and hydras where i could and left his leman russ company and super heavys alone after i rolled double 1s for my spaceship again. and out activated last turn broke his SC company on the blitz and took it and take and hold. 2-0 again

Forth game

Was doing alright until this point where i faced the tournament winner Mic with his Eldar.

Avatar [0pts]
Aspect Warrior Warhost c/w 8 Shining Spear, +Exarch, +Autarch [400pts]
Aspect Warrior Warhost c/w 8 Shining Spear, +Exarch, +Exarch [350pts]
Guardian Warhost c/w 5 Guardians, 1 Farseer, 2 Hvy Wpn Platform [150pts]
Guardian Warhost c/w 5 Guardians, 1 Farseer, 2 Hvy Wpn Platform [150pts]
Ranger Troupe c/w 4 Rangers, +1 Ranger [125pts]
Ranger Troupe c/w 4 Rangers [100pts]
Swords of Vaul c/w 3 Falcon, 2 Firestorm [250pts]
Swords of Vaul c/w 3 Falcon, 2 Firestorm [250pts]
Night Spinner Troupe c/w 3 Night Spinners [175pts]
Engine of Vaul c/w 1 Scorpion [250pts]
Engine of Vaul c/w 1 Scorpion [250pts]
Engine of Vaul c/w 1 Void Spinner [275pts]
Engine of Vaul c/w 1 Void Spinner [275pts]

After first turn he had picked off 2 supremacy units and moved up keeping his AA bubble in good spots. I was lucky enough to hit with my spaceship this game and i needed it. broke a void and got a lucky crit from a single DC on the second. My AX10 came on and shot a scorpion doing 2DC and breaking it. This was a lucky move for me running my bombers through AA surviving and droping the double pie on the broken void and scorpion to kill them both. he forgot i had a double template. So i was feeling alright here i took off 2 voids and a scorpion and cleared the rangers turn 1.

I won turn 2 and gave up a unit fire warriors to break a unit of spears trying to only have to worry about the won. Mic took the FW off with ease. The Night spinners opened up and got a crit on a riptide from BTS and broke them. so all i had left was 3 riptides 1 supremacy and a FW formation which i fed to him trying to take out the farseer setting up to unleash the avatar on my last riptides. I felt like it was all lost and this was my only hope to keep them alive and break the guardians so i only had the spears to really worry about. FW didnt do the job. avatar popped FW got ravaged by felcones with triple crossfire (new rule i learnt not know the blasts stack). Riptides survived the avatar :O double 1s for the macros. and i just move back to protect my blitz and try and minimise the loss. which i did lukly taking out some spears to denie him defend the flag. Mic also double some felcones accross to shoot my bts doing no damage but getting a crit from the DC i lost for being shot at after not rallying and rolled a crit to wipe them out and give him BTS. 0 - 3 BTS take and hold TSNP.

Sorry more detail on that game. it was one i was looking forward to playing if i got the chance and did Mics a great bloke.

Game Five

Fudds Gargants.

GREAT GARGANT [800]
2 Soopa Zzap Gun, Mega Lobba, Mekboy Big Boss

GREAT GARGANT [775]
2 Soopa Zzap Gun, Gatling Kannon

GARGANT [650]
2 Soopagun, Grot Guided Missile

SUPA STOMPA [325]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

LOOTA WARBAND (NORMAL) [150]
6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Big Gunz

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers


So much cover on this table. We did bugger all all game. He killed my AX10 from cap straight up so it was up to my spaceship doing 3dc. Fudd had a 3 fires i think for the game and put them out except 1 bugger

Was an alright game. honestly i dont really enjoy playing gargants. it just my opinion. They jump on objectives and shoot or assault u if u try and take them and u have to try and take off 6-12 shields and get through 12 DC on the big guys with 4+ 4+. Anyway ended up a draw 0 - 1 take and hold to him.

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I have 4 laptops in this room and cannot play a pixel pushing tabletop simulator on any of them.

I wasn't passing judgement on the new Tau stuff from GW (a discussion perhaps better left for another day....) I was just under the impression that lists in EA were designed with a particular tactic or focus in mind rather than generic "take all" lists. I'm not against new stuff in new lists but I thought that some old stuff usually gave way to include new kit.

I just think its a shame that older lists will essentially be invalidated by the new lists. Power creep is unavoidable in that situation when other lists get left as they are

I think that there are a few good reasons that this list should basically supersede the 3rd phase expansion list, or they should be merged, it wouldn't hurt to drop the kroot and custodian back in and call it good....

I'm planning on taking it out for a spin this evening, having a play around has yielded the following:

Firewarriors - 6FW, 3DF, Shas'o, Skyray - 425
Firewarriors - 6FW, 3DF, skyray - 325
Firewarriors - 8FW, cadre fireblade, ethereal - 300
Recon - 4 tetra, 1 pirhana - 150
Recon - 4 tetra, 1 pirhana - 150
Recon - 2 tetra, 3 pirhana - 150
Recon - 2 tetra, 3 pirhana - 150
XV104 Riptides - 350
KX139 Ta'unar supremacy - 225
KX138 Ta'unar supremacy - 225
Armoured Support Group - (4 Hammerhead) - 225
Barracudas - 150
Orca - 150

Gives a nice 13 activations, the footslogging firewarriors go in the Orca for some late game objective grabbing, with 8xFF4+ attacks, inspiring and fearless, as well as the deflector shield on the Orca, they should be able to handle most moderate things in engagements, and can always land and shoot with a crossfire if the opportunity presents itself, the KV139s give nice counter-battery/alpha strike option, and the recons stop units like warhounds getting angles to shoot my stuff, as well as calling in co-ordinated fire with the riptides+hammerheads

would have liked to have a 3rd skyray and a spaceship in there, but the points ran out

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

In fairness, i don't think its inevitable that adding options to a list will end up in power creep.

Being a newer faction (in 40k overall) the tau did have a relatively limited number of unit options in the 3rd phase list. I think the comparison the BT eldar is appropriate - so many competitive builds are possible in BT, but you cant take them all at once (at least not effectively).

While BT E is a strong list, it doesn't look to be getting nerfed. (Whether Codex marines and Steel legion need a buff is another matter for another place).

Now internal balance is difficult to get right, especially if following a literal translation of GWs ever more up-gunned models, but i have played a few games against Vior'la tau (admittedly before supremacy suits were added) but i never felt them overpowered.

without wanting to derail the thread entirely, BT eldar are probably the faction I've done best against in my friendly games over the last 5 years, I honestly can't say I see them as *that* powerful....

*ahem* moving back to Vior'la, while the overall power of the list is probably okay, it's still worth singling out the supremacy suits for some scrutiny...

let's compare them to a few equivalents:

vs chaos decimator, they are less robust and have a fair bit less firepower in a direct shootout, however, they outrange the tank by almost 3:1 when indirect fire is taken into account, and can hit the opposing deployment zone T1 which the decimator cannot do, in fact they can hit almost the entire table which gives them a massive advantage in terms of picking targets over the decimator, also the decimator is in the war engine section which limits how many can be taken

vs void spinner, for my money the VS is the premier artillery formation in the game, it can shrug off a few hits before breaking and doesn't degrade firepower, it's faster than the KX139 and can pop up, although lacks the secondary weapons of the battlesuit, it's also far less robust in every case, and costs 50 pts more, the disrupt and ignore cover kinda cancel out.... although yeah, disrupt is probably the better ability in most cases

vs basilisks, the basilisks do outrange the battlesuit, and can fire directly with 3 120cm range battlecannon shots, however I can count on one hand the number of times I've direct-fired basilisks in maybe 60 games using them with steel legion.... the downsides are crazy, basilisks break from a single kill, and even a single AP shot supresses one, they have a poor save and lack the ignore cover ability, they are also in a SR2 army which makes them crazy vulnerable to counter-battery fire, yet they cost 25 points more... I would kill for a DC3 war engine with an indirect fire barrage weapon in my steel legion..

given the capabilities they bring to the list, the counter-battery fire alone makes them a steal, especially when you consider that Tau often like to hide their units and artillery is one of the few ways to actually hit them...

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Okay just finished my game, managed a 3-0 loss turn 3 against orks, in my defence I failed a large number of activation rolls on turns 2-3 which cost me the game in a big way, the KX139s were pretty effective, with one managing to kill 8 skorchas in a single volley.... The riptides were nifty also for jumping out and crossfiring targets, and the fire warriors in an orca were potent when they decided to activate.... The deflector shield on the orca makes it a seriously good air transport.... Probably too good for the points, especially with the more potent air assault options in the list (fire warriors or twin vespid units for example)

The list definitely feels like Tau + extras which I'm not sure is a good thing, currently I would always take it over the 3rd phase list simply as it has pretty much no drawbacks and much more flexibility, the loss was probably because I'm not experienced with Tau and bad luck when it hurt most (also MikeT is a better player than I am)

I don't dislike the list at all though, a few tweaks and it would feel better

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

I think Yme may need to replace Matt (at least temporarily). It's true he hasn't logged on in 6 months. I'd love to see more development with this list

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Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group

8 scorchers in 1 barrage. what is your opponent doing. youd have to be hitting at least 12 with a small template and him not making a save.

Also i dono how your eldar opponennts play but if you have a look at the eldar list played against and see how youd deal with it let me know.

comparing the kx to basilisks its defs heaps better.

comparing to the void spinner its probably but only a little cheap if it is. unless eldar get nerfed a bit im all for the supremacys being 225. eldar have to many options. please dont say stop comparing to eldar too someone else said we are trying to keep everything balanced while eldar smoke us.

youve had 1 game with the viorla? have some more man.

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I have 4 laptops in this room and cannot play a pixel pushing tabletop simulator on any of them.

I will give Matt until the end of Feb to log in or comment and if we don't hear from him I will try and update the list.

But a warning, I am much more of the philosophy that epic lists should be specialised as it makes them easier to balance. I also think newer lists should both gain and lose options compared to the core lists.

So probably best to hope Matt comes back.

yeah they had basically bunched up to avoid sitting in ZoCs of the various units around so were tightly packed, they were also markerlit and the KX139 was able to sustain, so the barrage was hitting on 2's I got 8 under the template and a seeker missile hit, he only passed one save



my main eldar opponents are Steve54 and dptdexys who are ranked the 1st and 3rd eldar players in the UK I don't want to go into how to beat list X,Y,Z as
a.) this is a Tau thread
b.) those kinds of theoretical discussions always devolve into a 'yeah but what about when X happens?' circular debate and nobody has time for that my missus is pushing me to emigrate downunder so maybe I'll get to eat some humble pie in future?



Agreed



also agreed on the void spinner being the better option (skimmer, faster, disrupt, SR4 etc) but I don't agree with the view that 'unless army X gets a nerf, unit Y can't be increased in price' I mean, not every matchup is going to be vs eldar, so what about the more favourable matchups, like steel legion or LATD where the price is advantageous? surely if we have the premise that Eldar are overpowered, then balancing a list against them means that the other list will end up overpowered as well?



I plan to, any advice?

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Spoke to Matt on Face Book today and indicate that he should login and let people know he's alive..He responds was a "good idea and I will do that".....So hopefully he pop in sometime soon..

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Regards
Greg

*************************************************

Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..

Quote:
yeah they had basically bunched up to avoid sitting in ZoCs of the various units around so were tightly packed, they were also markerlit and the KX139 was able to sustain, so the barrage was hitting on 2's I got 8 under the template and a seeker missile hit, he only passed one save

Marker lights dont work on barrages.



Also i jumped out of line there. we have a pretty big group here in aus. and nearly everyone says eldar need a nerf except the eldar players. Well 1 out of the group does and is working on it as another i know is interested in doing it too. You guys must have different meta or something or different table set up. Im not sure. I just got annoyed about hearing it alot when i took them to cancon and come on hear and its the first thing i saw. Maybe everyone else thought it would get +1 with marker light too.

Anyway back to it. Im loving this list. has so many more options to build a list around. Gibbs and i took them to cancon not know what each other was taking and we ended up with 2 totally different lists but both ended up around the 7 and 8 mark or something.

_________________
I have 4 laptops in this room and cannot play a pixel pushing tabletop simulator on any of them.