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Tau Identity and Firefight

 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:51 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Nothing gets through a tau formation on overwatch anyway .

Wildly inaccurate, so best not to put that idea into new folks' heads.

I've had many instances where Tau on overwatch have failed to stop or even injure troops charging them (and have been wiped out in the engagement).


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:38 am 
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I wouldn't say it's inaccurate as a general principle; barring terrible luck Fire Warriors on overwatch should nuke almost anything that charges them.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Except AV's and most things with a 4+ RA save (although they will break most of those formations).


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Aye, but AV's don't tend to engage as often... and Tau have other tools to deal with AV's!

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:13 pm 
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However, the point is that FW on OW do represent the Tau close quarters fire-power.

So here is a completely wild thought; give the FW a rule that says they are always assumed to be on OW, until they actually do something else. ( this could possibly be given to other Tau, but I am less sure about that)

Obviously untested (and I do not think it has even been contemplated before), quite apart from being yet another of those 'special rules' that are so detested - so perhaps only viable for 'friendly' games.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Aye, but AV's don't tend to engage as often... and Tau have other tools to deal with AV's!

Again a bit inaccurate and maybe a bit subjective to your playing group perhaps? I've had a lot of players engage my Tau with AVs. Leman Russ companies, Ork mobs, IG Mech Companies, even Eldar with Falcons and Firestorms(including infantry. the numbers added up well for the Eldar).... Why wouldn't you? Tau infantry are soft engagement targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:50 am 
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You just listed a bunch of things that cost double or triple the points of a Fire Warrior formation.

And it's worth noting; Tau find it pretty easy to deal with enemy vehicles I'd say, in general they have much better tools for doing so than most armies...

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:31 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
You just listed a bunch of things that cost double or triple the points of a Fire Warrior formation.

So? Do you only attack formations of similar value with your formations, E&C? If that Tau infantry is holding an objective do you avoid them because you think it's beneath the higher priced formation's time to destroy them...? Of course not.

It doesn't matter that you're smashing stuff worth less points most times if you're gaining an advantage. As you yourself have said in the past, (paraphrasing here) the Tau list is all about activations.... If people can smash them bit by bit what do you have...? Less activations.

Evil and Chaos wrote:
And it's worth noting; Tau find it pretty easy to deal with enemy vehicles I'd say, in general they have much better tools for doing so than most armies...

We're discussing Tau Fire Warriors though, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:52 am 
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"so?"

So, if you sent 650pts of fire warriors at 225pts of marines, the Fire Warriors would win the Engagement with ease.
You stacked the deck to a silly extent.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:53 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
"so?"

So, if you sent 650pts of fire warriors at 225pts of marines, the Fire Warriors would win the Engagement with ease.
You stacked the deck to a silly extent.

Devil's advocate here: I wouldn't say it's necessarily "with ease". If you assault a dev formation on overwatch using 3x FW formations they'd probably lose the same number of units overall (3-4). FW would likely end up being ~ 2 up on the roll off due to numbers, but there's a fair level of swing involved with the marines' small number of good dice rolls.

That's not to detract from E&C's overall point though: turning it on its head somewhat, it's hard to argue against the fact that firewarriors have great overwatch capability for the points.

None of the above is to say I think FW either do or don't deserve a boost in either overwatch or firefight (the above is in total isolation and I have never played Tau so can't comment). Just sayin' the odds are not as extreme as they might first appear.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Me and E&C both lost 2-0 to Tau in Bristol so I think it's hard for us to say they're underpowered!

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:19 pm 
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And that Tau player won the tourney.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Yeps, I was playing Knightworld, so had the table filled w/ 4+ RA stuff that's also quite juicy in assaults. Every time one of my fms poked its head out to contest an objective or take a potshot at an enemy fm it got blasted to pieces. Have to say I could have forced a 4th turn if I had made a 2+ activation (and had a supreme re-roll for that too) but got snake eyes and 2-0 it was. Very cagey game, not sure how the Tau are supposed to feel on the table but they definitely didn't feel IG-like at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:12 pm 
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it's a shame we don't use dice with 1/2 values on, as Tau would do quite nicely with FF4 1/2. Simplicity and speed vs. completely representing an ability I guess :)


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Identity and Firefight
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Tau do fine and win tournaments with ff5+.

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