This is an experimental army list is it not? I always felt that that sort of thing was something you had to deal with when it came to adjustments. It truly isn't that hard to re-base a mini.

(note to self:  turn OFF hiragana typing before trying to reply in a forum, or it really looks weird)

A 'broadside stand' consisting of ONE broadside and 2 shield drones is already tougher to kill (in 40k) than a lemOn russ (pun intended).  It takes at least 3, and averages 5, lascannon shots to kill the 'stand', while a Russ will take penetrating hits from 1/3 of all hits, and die to half of those.  1 game in 6, your Russ will die to a single lascannon, while a broadside will never die to less than 3.  Missiles are a joke, broadsides need to take an average of 6 missile hits to go down (after you've peeled the shield drones, which take another 6 each), for 18 missile shots.

The real reason I wanted Broadsides as Infantry is so that they can enter terrain (like buildings).  Broadsides are sniper units, snipers live by the terrain they can hide in (or die because they can't hide).  Walker helps a bit, and house-ruling that broadsides can enter buildings (and other terrain impassable to vehicles but passable to infantry) helps even more.

We've fought this change several times, and the Broadsides as INF forces have lost every time.

Tau don't have a lot of infantry in 40k.  FW, PF, Kroot, Vespid, and Human Aux.  They have a lot of battlesuits.  Battlesuits do most of the killing in the Tau lists in the old 40k games.  Mounted FW cannot take out tanks, stealth teams or Crisis with Fusion blasters do that at close range, and Broadsides do it at long range.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea in principle, just pointing it out as a consideration.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Yep totally understood LiTS. I'll drop this now as I don't want this to degenerate into a Broadsides debate again.

Just know that I feel a list balance isn't just straight translation of hard numbers from one system to another and that my view of the Broadside is it would be much more interesting if its design was "blurred" in comparison to its 40K cousin. They work differently in both games - stats could too.

Next unit aspect discussion!

No thoughts on the manta stats?

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Sorry Zombo! I don't mind it, in general. Not exactly sure on TK1 however for a Twin Rail Cannon statline. I could perhaps see it having a shorter range instead if it's a bomber with planetfall however. Also, if you make it bomber with 5DC and a deflector shield, how hard will this thing be to kill by AA fire alone? LC is tough already.... I like the principle of making it air power(instead of support craft) just not sure how the implementation will work balance-wise.

The manta could potentially also use an armour save drop. In 40k it has the same armour as a hellhound, so 4+ or 5+ Reinforced might actually be more appropriate, and make it more managable for the opponent to deal with. Not to mention that it will cost quite a lot more than a landing craft... Perhaps a more deadly critical is in order too?

With regards to the Rail cannon, I can't understand how it was ever made TK(d3) in the first place. In IA3's 40k rules it is resolutely TK(1), and i think just about every other TK attack in epic matches up to the 40k equivilent damage. Not to mention that in the main people want the manta downgraded in firepower anyway. It could become two shots at Tk(1) however.

Of course there is a knock-on effect for the Moray and AX-1-0 (which also is TK(1) in 40k by the way).

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

The manta could potentially also use an armour save drop. In 40k it has the same armour as a hellhound, so 4+ or 5+ Reinforced might actually be more appropriate, and make it more managable for the opponent to deal with. Not to mention that it will cost quite a lot more than a landing craft... Perhaps a more deadly critical is in order too?

It's just an idea, I'm not all that bothered either way, it just seems strange that it was ever made D3 when other tk weapons follow 40k so exactly. Meh. Depowering it also allows the price of the manta to come down further.

Of course the AX-1-0 would need a price drop with this change, and possibly the option of squadroning them.

It'd be a neat balance on the moray though...

As for titan shields, it's not as if the Tau lack AT fire to strip them first...

Either way, I'm fairly confident the manta is balancable as a bomber.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

It'd be a neat balance on the moray though...

Do you mean without all the proposals for change from recent discussion? i.e no APU, no range adjustment...

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Hmm, I think we may have to face keeping the Manta as a Supportcraft

Just to protect the moray? Surely the moray was only invented as a support craft because the manta was made one?

The support craft rule in any form is a bit of a cop-out to me, and i'd like to see planes as planes and skimmers as skimmers.

Perhaps the moray could become a normal skimmer?

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Well if we go with APU we essentially have a skimmer, albeit in a changed form.

I've also had a rethink on jetpacks; hit and run unfortunately doesn't work.

While it very neatly represents the background, and works perfectly for formations who all have jetpacks, it just doesn't work at all for mixed formations.

Think about it, in a mixed formation, some bases may shoot then move while others move then shoot. This will lead to two seperate shooting sets from the same formation, which has all number of issues.

Instead how about decreasing the speed of jetpack troops by 5cm, and allowing them an extra 15cm move at the end of their activation? Suits will still be able to shoot then jump back, drones will be able to move to the front of the formation, and formations marching will still move the same distance.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread