Good to hear.  The manta should be able to crush whatever it can get within weapons range, but the player should have to work to get something worth a 700-point activation into range to crush.

Ah.  Firestorms will definitely ruin anyone's day if they're trying to fly in the area.

Otherwise, it sounds like the list is performing the way we wanted it to during the last re-design.

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

To make sure I'm reading this right...

The Shas'el upgrade doesn't have any sort of cadre restriction and there's no "must apply to the core units" restriction like in the BL list.  That means I can take a FW formation, with Crisis and Commander upgrades and apply the Shas'el to a Crisis suit from the upgrade, right?

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Neal

Yup.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Except that 475-point unit is likely to be your BTS, if you're not taking a Manta, AND is probably costing you another activation just from points-cost alone.  I'd like a less-expensive option for getting 'Leader' into a FW formation, so that you can actually get 12 activations in 3000 points.

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

How about a 50 point character for FW that provides an extra ranged shooting attack and leader?

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

FW (200) + Crisis (125) + Shas'el (50) = 375

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Neal

FW (200) + Crisis (125) + Shas'el (50) = 375

FW (200) + Devilfish to get them someplace useful (100)  + Crisis (125) + Shas'El (50) = 475.  Or, 525 with an Orca instead of the DFish.

I'd much rather have a less-expensive leader, I'm struggling to keep 10 activations in 3000 points as it is.

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

I'm not objecting to the idea of a cheaper Leader option.  I'm just saying your assumptions are wrong.

The plan for the formation is an Orca and putting them in an Orca doesn't make them 475 or the BTS.  In fact, Orca deployment makes the most sense for that formation.  Devilfish in a formation with Crisis suits is a waste.  Crisis suits slow down the Devilfish a lot more than unmounted FW slow down the Crisis.  However, the Crisis upgrade is fast and numerous enough to stop the formation from garrisoning.  Slow no matter what and unable to garrison means Orca is definitely the best option.

I can't imagine why you can't get over 10 activations.  I knocked out a FW-heavy list at lunch to start thinking about my game tomorrow and came up with 11 formations/9 activations (2 loaded Orcas) without even considering overall activation count.  That includes the above formation, and 2 others at 400+ points.  The only truly fragile formation in the list is a Recon group of 6 LVs.  I could easily pad out the activations by deploying garrisons.

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Neal

ok im new here ,i never speak up ,i just read and listen. BUT i have to say that to build a waepon that cannot target anything its self is the most a**inine thing i have ever heard of.yes im talking about that GM AND ML RULE. i would say that i like the ML rule. can relate to it .the unite is lasing (painting ) a target and the GM follows to target. cool no line of sight ok. but to say that the ship carring the GM cant las its own target!!!!!id shoot that weapons desiner strait out. so i would venture out to say that a ship with GM can direct fire 1/2 its range. I.E 45CM.  (SIR I SEE THE ENEMY BUT SOME IDIOT DIDNT GIVE ME SITES TO SHOOT )I loved the TAU . they are a very cool looking army. isaw the 5.0 rules and called forge world next day ordered the whole army in one shot. put them together and primmed . played them the other day and didnt use one GM. took the wind out of my sailes.(yes my 12 year old son saw the need to shoot all units with the ML RIGHT AWAY SO I DINDT GET A SHOT OFF)i can live with FW way they are its how you use them . not like standared inf.  i cant justify a waepon with no sites of its owne. hey if im crazy just say so. i dont mind. we just love to play epic.

@Ronsandt,

You are not crazy, but perhaps we who justify GW's logic are sometimes. The same logic (for lack of a better word) exists in 40K. You can put a 500 pts of seekers on your vehicles and carry them all game long, but if you do not have a markerlight to identify targets for them, then about all they are really good for is hood ornaments.

Goofy for sure. However, for the purposes of balance, we have removed the option of allowing them to fire independently.

But I do hear ya.

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

i am a tank guy hell i own a reaL TANK(M5A1 STUART) and i normaly play impearial guard.so you can tell i like to have some firepower in my armoured units.nuff said.  a Russ tank has a alot of guns and kick butt armour. and has a better chance to hit than the tau hammerheads. i just dont see why it cant marker light its own targets at a closer range . ok lets say 30cm.thats the range the marker lights work anyway.it would put some teeth into the vehical moving up to fight.is their any units in the game that rely on another being their to use your guns? i can see what you mean by bal.heck always shooting at 90 cm seems to good. but to go and now no shots at all.(i say no shots cuz my opponents will kill anyone with the ML on their units).(and lets face it you have to move those units up close to use the MLs )ill play test it the new way tonight and well see. but i think that ill get creamed again.well thanks

The background information on Markerlights is very clear that the mechanism to fire the missiles can only be activated remotely by a markerlight - there is no trigger inside the vehicle.

Guided missiles were considered too powerful in earlier versions, which is the other reason this change was brought in. If your MLs get killed early, you need to take more MLs and protect them better. This is a very Tau method of warfare.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

ok but the unit that has the GM has to fire them on their turn right. if the ML activate the GMs than due the GMs fire when the unit with MLs calls them. what im trying to say is the unit with the GMs has to use its activation to fire them or dose the unit with the ML fire them.so my hammer heads are being used as artillry when they should be fireing up another unit.?