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Orbital Tracer Missile targets?

 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:20 am 
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(Dobbsy @ Jul. 25 2006,07:00)
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Mosc' - 8 formations only if there are 2 WE on the board (and these hits will most likely be negated by shields/fields on the big WEs). If not you've seriously wasted a chunk of points and you only get to shoot 6 formations with minor results BM-wise. High initiative armies will barely feel the effect of 1-2 BMs on formations- especially Space Marines. Orks will laugh off single hits on big mobs.

I'm definitely happy to go with your 2x3/3x2 idea though for sake of player happiness (if others feel it unfair), but IMO this would increase the number of Blast Markers on single formations which WILL have a greater effect on those formations.

Hey Dobbsy, why would changing anything make your concern any more prominent?  In other words, if we leave it as it is, you can STILL fire everything at one formation.  Just because you can split doesn't mean you must split. :)

And high-activation armies pay for that activation.  I'd be miffed as a SM player if I had to actually ROLL initiative. :p

If nobody else thinks this is a big deal, we should probably leave it.  I have no practical experience on this.  My guess is, however, that this can be abused quite easily.  And being that I've inherited Kotrin's leftovers, my Tau army may very well be on the board this summer.

It would be good to hear from people like Asaura to find out what the implications of all those BMs were in his game.

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:59 pm 
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I don't think it'd bother me much. If the Tau managed to get enough guys into range to mark that many of my formations I'd probably deserve to get that kind of blood nose. And honestly, for the most part, I just don't see 1 BM as a big deterrant for most formations. Marines still activate on a 2+. 3+ if retaining. IG might have it a little harder at 3+/4+. But even there it's not too bad. Were I playing Tau I'd be more likely to do like Lion and use it as a 'fist of god' action, to smash the formation I really want dead as hard as I can.


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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:55 am 
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(Moscovian @ Jul. 25 2006,11:20)
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It would be good to hear from people like asaura to find out what the implications of all those BMs were in his game.

Well, the four LATD titans never really made it out of their setup zone. I can't recall the details, but the Orbital BMs played a big part in this. I only needed three per formation to break them, and getting the first one for "free" was too nice. One more shot and a failed activation roll -> broken titan.


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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:37 pm 
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Hey all,

I can tell you from design perspective, the Tracer salvo was never costed to assume X different formations would be targetted.

From design, it was simply meant to add a 3rd weapon to the ship as a Tau alternative to bombardments of the imperium as they see in BFG.

Now, one could make a valid argument that the Tracer Salvo in fluff does hit more than one enemy formation, however, I think its quite the stretch to say that each missile tracer hits a different target enemy formation.

Therefore, I agree with Asaura and Dobbsy here.
1) Its not meant to place 6 different blast markers and seems a little out of character for the army to allow this. 6 different blast markers on an army that's easily affected by blast markers... IG? could definitely be impacted by this tactic.

2) I also think in fluff that Dobbsy's recomendation of 2x "Salvos" of 3x MW6+ ... etc... is the right call. See Dobbsy's suggestion on page one.

The comprimise addresses the real issue of above here and aligns with design intentions and yeilds to fluff.

Good catch Asaura, good solution Dobbsy.

'wave'

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:40 pm 
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Uhm... That was my suggestion.  :(

Where's the love here!?!? :;):

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:45 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Jul. 26 2006,18:40)
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Uhm... That was my suggestion. ?:(

Where's the love here!?!? :;):

We all love you Moscovian, we just have a hard time showing it...   :laugh:

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:45 pm 
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Moscovian,

Oops! :)

Dobbsy's "knicker's" comment just stuck out in my head I guess - LOL, and I stand corrected! For the record, I aggree with Moscovian's suggestion on the Tracers as per the aforementioned post, but Dobbsy's comment is most memorable. :)

'wave'

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:22 pm 
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Hey, I don't need this kind of abuse from you guys.
I have hundreds of people waiting to abuse me. :p

Cool.  Now I will be famous.  When people discuss the Tracer Salvos in the history books, my name will appear in print-

<---clouds part and dream disippates-->

Uh, where am I?

Seriously though, I guess we just need some stamp from CS and maybe it will make it into 4.4.1...?

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:50 pm 
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OK - blah... that's not a fun place! :p

Seriously, yep - CS just needs to wiegh in. I don't see him having any problem - but don't want to speak for him either.

'wave'

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:42 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Jul. 26 2006,20:22)
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Hey, I don't need this kind of abuse from you guys.
I have hundreds of people waiting to abuse me. :p

So what if, two or three more people want to get in on it? :p :lol: JK


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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:22 am 
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(Tactica @ Jul. 26 2006,20:50)
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Seriously, yep - CS just needs to wiegh in. I don't see him having any problem - but don't want to speak for him either.

:D  I have another filter of these threads planned in the near future, when I go through each thread, consolidate, respond and sort the points - adding the results to the update thread when required.

Give me a day or two and we can get discussion really moving here again.

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:05 am 
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OK...

I think that this issue emerged from the evolution of space craft in the game, since in the rule book and Swordwind, space craft only have single pinpoint attacks or BPs (pause while I wait for someone to prove me wrong with a stat that I have missed).

Being able to smack a number of formations could leave the stats open to minor abuse. I am in favour of the 'Moscovian targetting principle' ( :cool: ) altering the salvos to 2x salvoes and 3xMW shots each (and a note on the ability to independently target them).

This wont affect people who hit only a few formations, and wont affect enemy forces which have most formations out of ML range. It should only limit the 'blanket bombing' principle, so seems fine for me.

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:35 am 
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I am honored!  :D

Moscovian: Do I get a prize?  Will you name a unit after me?
Cybershadow: No.

Moscovian:Okay, how about a missle?
Cybershadow: No.

Moscovian:Alright, maybe just encode my name into the unit stats.
Cybershadow: No.

Moscovian:Would you settle for including the letter 'M' in the missle?
Cybershadow: (sighs and shakes his head in defeat)

Moscovian: Hey guys!  I am PUBLISHED! :p

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:21 pm 
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Sorry it took me awhile to catch up on this thread.


I think it's fine if they can target multiple formations: Remember they can only target War Engines or units inside Marker Light range. So most of the time if you're deploying the spacecraft on Turn 1 you're not going to have more then 2-3 (If that) targets to shoot at. I think the 'places tons of blast markers' is unduely over-hyped in the case of Tau starships. Yes you can theoretically place 1 BM on 6 formations... But if you have guys in position to mark all 6 formations to do this chances are that you're either about ready to win t he game, or about to suffer a crushing counter-attack from the enemy as you see a lot of sustained fire/assault moves.


I would also remind people that Stealth and Marker Light Sentry turrets can all be deployed pre-first turn to light up formations deep in the opponents zone.

So, I also strongly favor a limitation of 2 x 3MW+6 attacks.

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 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:20 pm 
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(CyberShadow @ Aug. 04 2006,06:05)
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I think that this issue emerged from the evolution of space craft in the game, since in the rule book and Swordwind, space craft only have single pinpoint attacks or BPs (pause while I wait for someone to prove me wrong with a stat that I have missed).

Mwahahaha! I am here to prove you wrong! The Eldar Dragonship has 2x Pin-Point Attacks. And as far as I'm aware they can each target different War Engine formations on the board. It also doesn't have 'Slow and Steady' so you can potentially drop them on Turn 1.

Just had to add this one, because it amused me.






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