Sentry Turret with Marker Light |
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light  Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:04 pm |
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Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
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Picket, but don't forget cheap and easy crossfire.
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Well, although this is certainly a possibility, I guess I had assumed that if anybody drops something right next to you in real life, you either shoot it into rubble or leave the area.
I hadn't considered the "Golly Earl, lookee thet camra. Duh ya thenk it cums frum Whal-mart?" response to the teleport.
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Tactica
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:34 pm |
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In order to 'crossfire' isn't one of the requirements that the unit has a gun in range and LOF - even if it cannot hurt the target enemy?
Sentry Towers don't have weapons.
Therefore, could they be used for crossfire?
My immediate response is - no.
cheers,
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Rob
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:06 pm |
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Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
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Tac,
That was my initial thought as well, but then I also vaguely recall that the rules say within 45cm of another unit. I won't know for sure until I can get home to check.
Again, no crossfire would be a balancing factor to counter some of the benefits.
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Tactica
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:23 pm |
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Honda,
Well, I didn't want to wait. 
Vault Rules on SG website
1.11 CROSSFIRE
Formations that take fire from the flank or rear are caught
in a deadly crossfire, and will suffer additional casualties
as troops struggle to find cover from attacks coming from
an unexpected direction.
To represent this, formations are allowed to use the
following rules to claim a crossfire bonus when they
shoot. You can claim the crossfire bonus if you can draw
a straight line up to 45cm long from any of the units in the
shooting formation to any unit in another friendly
formation and this line crosses a unit from the target
formation or the gap between two units from the target
formation.
The friendly unit that the crossfire line is drawn to must
have a line of fire to a unit from the target formation, but
does not have to be in range with any of its weapons. You
may not use units that are in broken or marching
formations to claim the crossfire bonus.
All units from a formation caught in a crossfire suffer a -1
save modifier. This may result in some units automatically
failing their saving throw. Some terrain features or special
rules may counter this modifier (see 1.8.4 and 2.1.16).
In addition, a formation caught in a crossfire attack
receives two Blast markers for the first unit destroyed by
the attack, rather than just one Blast marker for the
destroyed unit as would usually be the case (see 1.9.4).
Note that a formation attacked by several enemy
formations, each of which can claim a crossfire, will
receive the extra Blast marker from each enemy formation
that inflicts one or more casualties.
Example of Play: Crossfire
The Land Raiders have taken an advance action and
moved to the position shown in the photograph below.
The Space Marine player is able to draw a line of fire less
than 45cms long to a unit in the Space Marine Tactical
formation, and so is able to claim the crossfire bonus
when shooting on the Orks.
The Land Raiders? lascannon are inneffective against the
Ork infantry, but their heavy bolters inflict three hits.
The -1 save modifier means that it is impossible for the
Orks to make their armour save so three units are
removed as casualties.
Five Blast markers are inflicted on the Orks: one for
coming under fire, two for the first casualty caused by
the heavy bolter fire, and two more for the remaining
two casualties. There are only five units left in the Ork
warband, so the five Blast markers inflicted by the Land
Raiders are just enough to break the warband.
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Although it seems odd... it would appear that you could be crossfired with the proposed sentries that have no weapons... We may want to include that as a special "Notes" item... i.e. "no functional weapons: may not participate in crossfire" if the formation appears to be broken when used with establishing crossfires. Otherwise, we probably want to avoid making a special case if we can. Crossfire seems assume the site of the LOF is critical, even if weapons are not in range... so one wonders if having no weapons is included in that 'having no weapons in range' comment. Heh... the sentry doesn't even have a FF value!
It seems very bizzare to have the unit allowed participate in a crossfire to me.
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Rob
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Tactica
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:03 am |
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Honda,
I added it as a collectors unit to the WIP 4.2.7 list. See that thread.
PS - I made it an LV just following the lead of the other drone sentry turrets with guns that had better armor. Don't know if that was your vision or not.
Cheers,
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Rob
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:50 pm |
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Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
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PS - I made it an LV just following the lead of the other drone sentry turrets with guns that had better armor. Don't know if that was your vision or not.
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Actually, that I was going to recommend LV as well since it has armor 10 all the way around.
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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HecklerMD
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:47 pm |
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Am I correct in assuming that, with a speed of 0, all the turrets can be garrisoned, or be Orca droped?
If you are using the garrison rule in the scenario you are using the turrets in, of course.
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Dobbsy
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:52 pm |
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Nice idea! How about:
teleport, scout unit with only markerlights, no contest no zoc?
They aren't there to hold territory they're there to paint targets in a broad area. My first thoughts are that they are like the air dropped ground sensors they use to drop in Vietnam to monitor movement. They don't land together they are scattered over an area to cover the maximum ground they can....
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Tactica
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:27 am |
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Heckler,
I hadn't considered dropping them from an Orca, but in fluff, thats exactly what the turrets do. I think its reasonable that the sensors could do the same thing - I'd have to go research the fluff on them though. If permitted in fluff, it makes sense to me and I would not be opposed to them deploying in via Orca.
Dobbsy,
Good visual actually.. hmm... If we took away the ZOC, then scout would seem fine and I agree with Dobbsy - that is in effect the use.
Honda,
You are the originator of this is idea - what say you about these two concepts?
Others,
Want to wiegh in? Do you like the concept of this unit/formation? Do you like the rules behind it or see a problem?
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Rob
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:39 am |
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Location: Ohio - USA
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Yes, That was my plan ... to drop them from Orcas ! 
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:20 am |
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Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
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Am I correct in assuming that, with a speed of 0, all the turrets can be garrisoned, or be Orca droped?
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I don't see any reason why they couldn't be capable of the above.
Given that they have teleport, are you guys thinking that you'd drop them out of Orcas to eliminate the BPs?
I was thinking that Orcas wouldn't be needed if teleport was available, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
BTW, I just finished scratch-building 18 of these puppies, though I think I'm only going to use two units on Saturday (2700 pts vs. Tyranids).
I was checking up on my friend who I will be playing and he was wondering if he could make up some of the points by bringing some Bio-titans. So now I'm thinking I'll need these for certain to leverage my Scorpionfish as well as Morays, otw it's going to be bug chow time.
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:30 am |
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Dobbsy,
I think we need to play them some before we start looking at their cost. It's possible that the cost may jump up or down based on what we see them do. I think that it's fine to look at what they bring to the table as far a abilities, but I think you also need to keep in mind the things that they are unable to do. A case in point, the weakest unit in anyone's list is capable of completely wiping them out.
I was supposed to field them in my game with the Bugs, but got distracted enough by all the other things that were going on later in the game that I actually never fielded them.
Part of the challenge of using them is ensuring that they actually help you. Early in my game, I didn't have the opportunities, later I could have, but as I said, got distracted.
After all, if you drop them out in the middle of nowhere you have just burned 75 points for no gain.
JMO...
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Tastyfish
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:45 am |
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Can't really see them as a unit in epic - forcing a unit to possible recieve blastmarkers to get rid of a dangerous unit that is completely uneffected by anything thrown at it until distruction seems a little unfair.
IA3 says they are the equivalent of a Tau minefield - wouldn't it be better approaching it from this angle?
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Dobbsy
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:45 am |
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Yeah point taken Honda and Tastyfishy. I wasn't really sure how to approach what I proposed but you both kinda hit my nail on its head with regards to points vs abilities. Basically it could be a very awkward unit (re:Tasty's comment) and pricing would need to reflect that for better or for worse(Honda's)i.e ... should pricing go up because it's ability is difficult for the opponent to deal with so the opponent isn't disadvantaged. It is a pretty good unit in my mind for what it would do afterall.
Hope this post doesn't seem confusing...
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Basically, they're a thorn in the enemy's side but there has to be balance for what you get.