Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

[Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?

 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:41 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 05 Mar. 2009, 21:36 )

lots of monster TK....

I think the Manta is considered the "monster"... monster points for monster shots?  :))

I agree that perhaps the Hero should at minimum be more like 175 points.


I'd rate the Hero at, at least, 200 points... then I'd consider taking other things instead.




_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:45 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia
E&C has the same stats on his Cruiser in the Ad Mech list and no one is complaining about it there.

Chroma - you had a game where the orbital suppport was both very lucky (getting a critical on the Thunderhawk) and effective and that seems to have be the catalyst for this thread. They are not usually that effective. It should be noted that the Marines still won that game.

There are so many times when one of the shot misses or only does 1 point of damage.

150pts for a one shot wonder is good value (when it works) but it's hardly broken or needing correction.

Again, this just seems a storm in a teacup.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (Onyx @ 05 Mar. 2009, 22:45 )

E&C has the same stats on his Cruiser in the Ad Mech list and no one is complaining about it there.

There's enough "on-board" TK that the Ad Mech cruiser is probably never taken.

For Tau, there's a sparsity of TK.  And, yes, my recent experiences are what prompted this, as I'd never bothered to check out the Tau spacecraft before as I wasn't planetfalling anything... when I saw *two* TK attacks for 150 points I was sold!

There are so many times when one of the shot misses or only does 1 point of damage.


Even against a target in cover, both are likely to hit... it's those rare "Missed a 2+, dangit!" events that tend to stick out that makes them seem more common than they are.  On average, it's going to do 4DC to a single target... that's significant.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:55 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
"When it works?" You've two attacks on 2+ doing D3 hits. You should expect a minimum of 2DC and an average of 3-4DC removed from superheavies.

Unless you are very unlucky, you should expect to splat an unshielded Warhound easily. That's 250 points back there and the fact that you can reach out and touch anything is very valuble, plus it can pad out your activations.

The AMTL cruiser is undercosted too. I'm telling you, with 2x pinpoints, 225 points (admittedly with 1+ initative) seems cheap. I would say 200 points, easy with initative 2+ (without retaining, you can expect to have your spacecraft turn up when you want 5 games out of 6).





Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:09 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:36 am
Posts: 207
I would say the easier thing in this case is just to drop it to 1 Pin-Point attack.

1 Pin-Point and the ability to planetfall seem useful enough on its own.

Keep that @ 150 or maybe down to 125.

It would also be easier to play.  Problem with upping to 200 points is that it makes it harder on someone who just wants to Planetfall their Orca even when they know they won't need the TK.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:29 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
And, even without "slow-and-steady", the Hero is still superiour to the more expensive Custodian.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:43 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 05 Mar. 2009, 21:36 )

The only reason not to take it is that Tau have lots of monster TK options

LOL!! One aircraft with TK that can be easily shot down does not equate to lots of monster TK....

Okay, fine... lots of TK and MW options.

Though I still submit that if you use the Tiger Sharks properly you should be able to get 4 TK shots out of them, plus their other fire.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:52 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (nealhunt @ 05 Mar. 2009, 23:43 )

Though I still submit that if you use the Tiger Sharks properly you should be able to get 4 TK shots out of them, plus their other fire.

Each Tiger Shark only has one TK shot, Neal.  At least that's what it says in my v5.0.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:25 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Quote: (Chroma @ 06 Mar. 2009, 00:52 )

Quote: (nealhunt @ 05 Mar. 2009, 23:43 )

Though I still submit that if you use the Tiger Sharks properly you should be able to get 4 TK shots out of them, plus their other fire.

Each Tiger Shark only has one TK shot, Neal.  At least that's what it says in my v5.0.

A formation of Tiger Sharks has 2 planes.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:32 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (nealhunt @ 06 Mar. 2009, 02:25 )

A formation of Tiger Sharks has 2 planes.

So where's the "4 shots" come in?!?  *laugh*  I take it you meant over multiple turns...

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:02 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
The two for 350 was discussed at length in the Tau Air Caste thread. Essentially dropping the idea of the AX-1-0 being a WE meant there needed to be two a/c and 350 was chosen to get above the 333 point and having three such formations per 3000 point game.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:10 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 4262
Well in 5.0 they are two WE DC2 bombers for 350 points. Something got lost in translation!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: [Spacecraft] Why wouldn't you take a Hero?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:38 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia
Honda has already acknowledged the mistaken stats for the AX-1-0 in V5.

Ginger is right.

I can see a small argument to increase the cost of the Hero to 175pts because of the ability to Planetfall units. I don't see any argument to increase them past that cost.

So many times, I've fired the Hero at a Super Heavy Tank Company and just damaged 2 shadowswords and nothing else (or missed one completely). It simply is not a game changing/breaking unit.




_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron

Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net