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Cadres

Jstr19

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:39 pm

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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:33 am
Posts: 340

The problem as I see it with FW's is that they pack a real punch at 30cm with their shooting but they are very vulnable to CC and FF which also in most infantry has a range of 30cm. Therefore in order for FW's to be affective they have to be risked. It is also very expensive to attach a leader to one formation which is why I suggested a leader upgrade for FW formations. This combined with the fact that an effective FW unit currently costs the same as the AMHC, a six strong Battle suit Cadre and currently less than two units of Human helpers is why I stopped using them altogether.

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Charad

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:01 pm

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Location: Finland

This conversation has started to go around from beginning... But anyway, I'll put my spoon on the soup too.

Those humans are really cheap and they can Almost have more humans in one formation than steel legion, make it 8 at most and it represents their rarity.

Those devilfish are quite cheap addition for fire warriors and they seem fine to me even without transports. It is not them (or their points) that are wrong. For example, why does those battle suits have so much 'extra' weapons on them?

And biggest thing in my eyes are tau air crafts... what a firepower and for a pretty cheap cost...

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Moscovian

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:54 pm

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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
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Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

(Charad @ Jun. 21 2007,13:01)

QUOTE

This conversation has started to go around from beginning...

Isn't that the truth!

Cybershadow,

We all await your final judgment.

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CyberShadow

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:21 pm

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Location: Singapore

I am here. I usually sit and watch the discussion for a while before jumping in. Give me a bit of time to analyse and get back to you.

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mageboltrat

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:00 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:07 pm
Posts: 1015

OK I don't think that you should be forced to take firewarriors. The background has many instances of entirely tank based Tau armies, however I do have some fixes

1) Only allow a Ethereal to be taken as a Supreme commander in a FW formation
2) Lower the point of FW a small amount and increase the points of their transports a tiny bit. Overall the cost of a Mech FW formation should remain the same
3) Only allow 1 Auxilery formation / formation of FW

all or some of these changes would help

*Part of me still thinks the problem is partly Forge World inflated prices on infantry that is the problem.

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Soren

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:09 am

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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 694
Location: Austria

My 0,002 cents:

limit the Human auxiliary troop selection to 0-1 to represent their rarity

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:21 am

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Location: London

I use 1st edition eldar infantry as Tau.

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Legion 4

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:39 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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Location: Ohio - USA

Good idea, TRC ... but I'm a purist !

And again, I agree 0-1 for Aux.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:18 pm

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Location: London

I dislike 0-x restrictions unless they are for background - here we have a formation that is excellent at something, and then being limited with a justification. If it deserves its limit fairy snuff, but if its better than another option where it should be an alternative then mayhaps it needs to be toned down and limited. Note not saying the auxilaries are, just pointing out a general thing about 0-x limits.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:29 pm

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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

I agree with TRC too.

0-X restrictions just results in a list like the Chaos army, where it's pretty much essential to fill up all the 0-X slots you can, because they're the best choices in the army.

Far better to make all choices valid ones.

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asaura

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:41 pm

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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:34 am
Posts: 481

Wild idea: do not allow auxiliaries to claim objectives.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:51 pm

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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
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Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

Then you have yet another special rule for the Tau. And it wouldn't help for scenario games, only tournaments.

If people are insisting on keeping the Armored Cadres and not limiting the number of auxillaries, then it appears a point bump on human auxilliaries would be one of the few options left. This could represent their rarity, the difficulty in commanding them, whatever fluff you want. Ultimately all of these costs are a way to balance the lists internally and externally anyway. IMO there is no harm in having the humans cost one price on the IG and another on the Tau list.

Or save the human auxilliaries for a Tau variant list and remove them altogether. Personally I'd like to see the the human auxilliary removed AND the Armored Cadre taken from the core list. The Tau would still do quite well for themselves.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Cadres

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:54 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

the Armored Cadre taken from the core list.

I'm in favour of this.

You could move the choice to the Support Formations section instead.

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