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Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
Nerroth
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:52 pm 
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I'm thinking of perhaps restricting some of the armoured units in a manner that would require the fielding of Infantry formations to use them.


For example, I could have the Armoured Company only available IF you take a unit of either regular or mechanised inf - or, alternatively, the SC. (Might make it Inf instead, to stop the SC from letting you cheat too much...)

Or, perhaps require the SC AND at least one Infantry or MechInf formation?

And further, one could only have the Imperial-design superheavies if the tank company itself is there.


With that, the flavour of the list would vary considerably, depending on which options you want - concentrate on Grenadier formations and Air caste support, yet lose out on heavy armour - or go for the armour and foot-sloggers, and take the hit on flexibility.


However, the list has already seen such ideas pared down already - I removed the likes of 0-1 Fire Warriors and Scorpionfish, which required the use of certain units, because it seemed better to just assume they can't have them, or don't bother with them, in the first place.


But, I already have such restrictions on Vultures, so it might work.


Thoughts?



I will likely go for the 250 points price for the Grenadiers, though. Seems reasonable enough.




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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:56 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 03 2007,13:59)
QUOTE
That list above would... pwn.

That list might p0wn.

Have you got a bat-rep and playtest report to confirm your statement?

Orde

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:03 pm 
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Don't be facetious, you know I haven't, but the list is obviously strong and underpointed.

I will likely go for the 250 points price for the Grenadiers, though.

Nerroth seems to agree.


p0wn

The correct spelling is 'pwn'. 'p0wn' is a later mutation / retro-active revision of the original word. :)




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Nerroth
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:18 pm 
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Ok, so would the following modifications:


*250 points for Grenadier formations

*Tank Company only available if:

-the SC

AND

One of either
*an Infantry
or
a MechInf formation

are taken

*Super-heavies only available if Tank Company is taken


be acceptable?


I just noted that there already is a restriction on Orcas in there already, so they should be fine as is.




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blackhorizon
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:11 pm 
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pwn comes from pawned

/leaves thread.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:16 pm 
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'%x1 has been pwned'


Every lamer knows that 'pwned' originated from a Warcraft map, where the message was displayed when the player lost against the pc.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:40 pm 
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I figured it was Tau terminology since none of us vets would hijack a brother's thread for such nonsense, would we? :)

I agree with Ilushia that the SHTs would seem kinda out of place in the list.  What are the production capabilities of the planet anyway?  Can they manufacture Russes and Chimeras and such?  Just curious..

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Jstr19
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:32 pm 
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A 50 point increase on the Grenadiers is not justified. They are only just better than IG stormtroopers and don't come with the free inspiring leader. 225 would be the absoulute Max in my opinion.  When comparing to any IG formation it is necessary to factor in the commisar who is an important part of the formation. Grenadiers don't have access to any inspiring leader which will hamper them as a engagement unit.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:35 pm 
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I'm possibly with Jstr here, although those Grenediers do have twice the AP shots of normal Storm Troopers, plus one of them is a disrupt shot. Put them in Chimeras or especially Valkyries and you're looking at some truly exceptional AP firepower with the speed to put it where it's needed.

If you want to err on the side of caution, go with 250.




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Jstr19
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:37 pm 
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Why is an Imperial super heavy formation in the list? I am starting a Guen'shi list with an existing Tau army and I cant see the point of this unit when the list has access to Moray's.

What do you think about the idea of adding Skyrays to the list? I would like to see them added. It is weird to only see them as a add on for the SC formation and not the rest of the list.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:41 pm 
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Aye, Morays are somewhat superior to their Imperial counterparts aren't they? :D

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:27 pm 
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I'd consider Morays to be more comparable to Warhounds then to Baneblades, but that's just me!

As for the price on the Grenadiers, 225 might be enough. I mostly suggested 250 based on the idea that in the one I've got for them they get 1 AT 5+ and 1 AP 5+ Disrupt shot. Not really sure they're worth that much, but it was a rough guess. The lack of Inspiring does knock them down a bit though.
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Jstr19
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:29 pm 
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E&C remember how succesful my FW's were using their AP5+ shots. The truth of the matter is that a shot hitting on a 5 against infantry just isn't going to do any damage as they normally need 6's or 7's to score a hit. Even when I had 24 shots hitting on 6's against targets in cover I hardly ever did damage. The real damage to AP targets in the air cav formation will com from the Valkyries and they are pointed the same as the IG list. You shouldn't price a unit in terms of how it can be combined with other units in the list. If you do this shouldn't the IG air cav formation go up in points as well.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:12 am 
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You shouldn't price a unit in terms of how it can be combined with other units in the list.


Actually, that's pretty much a fundamental rule of how to write an army list.

Over-effective synergies are just as bad as a single overpowered unit choice, in their own way, and harder to root out to boot.




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Nerroth
 Post subject: Ideas for Gue'senshi 7.5
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:11 am 
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*225 points might work.

*From the text in the pdf:

These regiments were designed to take advantage of the local production facilities, which allowed for a higher proportion of carapace-armoured troops, Leman Russ battle tanks and the local variant of skimmers such as the Valkyrie and Vulture, while lacking heavy artillery or super-heavy vehicle production facilities. (The new Timbra Shas?ar?tol reasoned that seeker missiles and Tau support craft would serve as a replacement.) Also, a number of Imperial super-heavy armoured vehicles were left behind by the retreating Imperial forces in the annexation, of which some are currently undergoing reverse-engineering by the Fio caste to examine the possibility of initiating production on Kleist. Others are being deployed in small numbers to certain regiments, where needed against opposing heavy vehicles.


When the Imperials pulled out, they abandoned almost all of their heavy equipment - and a significant proportion of crews defected during the annexation anyway.

*Morays are equivalent to Revenants or Warhounds, not Baneblades or Scorpions. And since there are some Imperial super-heavies on Kleist, no Scorpionfish (ha - at least Narwhal was a name which didn't ring closely to a word used for the primary eldar super-heavy tank!) available in the list, and restricted access to the SHTs in the list as-is...

*Skyrays are only available to the HQ, because other formations have to rely on Hydras for AA cover... well, and a healthy selection of Barracudas, too. Yay for the air caste!




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