Stingray and the Armoured Cadre |
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Lion in the Stars
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre  Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:32 am |
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I originally designed the Stingray based on the missilepod Hammerhead, so would probably just use that (when I get around to the next big FW order). The other options (as I see them) are to: a) use the Skyray models, or b) convert something that looks like the MP-HH, with bigger pods (what JimmyGrill did for his).
My just-arrived FW order (IA3, all the 40k HH turret options, a Skyray kit, and 2 packs of Tetras) was very good, with only a couple spots of mold problems, and a little bit of warpage.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:33 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Tactica: Assuming you are talking about MiniatureGod, I saw all his stuff but in many cases it is going for retail prices or possibly even more. My target for second hand toys is ~50% of retail. On FW stuff I've sometimes gone as high as 75% in ideal situations.
Sure,his stuff is painted but I enjoy painting (when I have time) so buying pre-painted minis, while convenient, is not worth a premium to me.
Incidentally, I noticed he had re-listed several items that went for insane prices. I am assuming the people who bid thought they were getting 40K models instead of Epic. I hope he at least got the erroneous bidders to pay for his re-listing costs.
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Regarding FW, no my friend isn't concerned. First, this is the guy that I referred to as the Primarch of GHQ, so is quite used to problems with orders. Second, everyone knows that resin is brittle and broken FW bits are pretty common. Third, FW was extremely fair and gave him credit with no hassle.
If anything, he's encouraged to do business with them - the Cathedral is still workable (just convert for a bit of battle damage) and he had a similar problem with his last big order so his last 2 orders from FW were essentially free.
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I saw another round of Miniature God's stuff, including some Tzeentch chaos stuff. If he is interested in selling a lot of Tzeentch stuff at once instead of e-baying it, let me know.
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Neal
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Tactica
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:32 pm |
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 23 Nov. 2005 (14:33)) | | Tactica: ?Assuming you are talking about MiniatureGod... |
NH,
miniaturegod is Tom. He's the owner of the beautiful epic terrain you may recall a battle report or two of mine from, he's also the host of our typical saturday game day.
Sorcerer Studios out of canada painted all the epic stuff. Its beautiful and I've played with everyone of those pieces before I had my army. If you are looking for value compared to FW prices, then definitely not the right auction to bid on.
If you are looking for value and do value the highl level paint job on a model, then those are worth considering.
Yes, the problematic ebayer is always an issue, and I doubt that he was compensated for the faulty bids. Hopefully all his auctions clearly state what the models are this go around.
Regarding his tzeentch stuff, If you bid on one of his auctions, then drop him a line. He knows you as nealhunt from the various boards. He does have an increadible amount of painted stuff, but I don't know how much of it is for sale. If you have a specific list of items of interest, it may be worth dropping him a line.
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Rob
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:32 pm |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Location: Singapore
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Neal - Please let us know how your game goes, and your impressions on the list. In particular, I am a little worried by the 'no brainer' combination of 5xRG/1xIC Armoured Cadre. Right now, I cant see how to make this a slightly more difficult decision without unbalancing one of the units.
I am very tempted to remove the entry for the missile pack armed Hammerhead, but I dont want to take anything away from the list.
I have found FW stuff to be really good. The only problems that I have had is with the Ork Battlewagons, the aerials are always broken! Still, they will pretty much always replace damaged or missing parts with zero fuss (although they only replace the missing/damaged parts, no extras).
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Dobbsy
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:32 am |
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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I've had problems with the Tau gear I've bought recently - two packs of IC HH components had bad "blistering" deformities (which destroyed detail) and almost an entire pack of Fire warriors were unusable. FW replaced both HH packs in entirety and sent 2x packs of FWs to cover the 1 pack that was crap just in case some of those were no good. I cannot fault their customer service - top notch.
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Tactica
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:32 am |
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CS,
The problem with the 1 IC is that its being used for field of fire for AA.
I think it needs to have +1 AP, to be the opposite of the Railgun Hammerhead.
Right now, if I want to hunt tanks - I take rail-heads and swordfish if I can fit the points upgrade.
If I want to hunt AP - I can take Rail-head or IC-head, but if I'm not expecting much AA - I might as well take more Rail-head.
If I'm going to hunt AP or AT then, the Rail-head is still the better choice... now, if I'm expecting an AA threat, I add in just enough IC to give me a comfortable field of fire, and then I add in the Skyray if I'm really concerned.
So where the IC should be coming into consideration - AP heavy army, its not. It should be. Thus, a +1 to the AP side will make the IC-head more appealing and will cause more people to balance and take a larger variety of hammerheads IMHO.
Cheers,
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Rob
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Lion in the Stars
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:02 pm |
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A thought that recently occurred to me: is 2x AP5+ really representative of what was intended to be very nearly 1BP?
Should it be 2x AP5+/AT6+, or even more shots (based on how many stands usually fall under one template)?
Remembering that it goes to 2x AP4+ marked, and 2x AP3+ marked/sustained now.
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Tactica
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:44 am |
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Lion,
I guess the question is - do people thing the Stingray is serving its purpose as is?
My guess is that most feel its working.
I think its a very infantry centric piece, but considering the smaller payload - would you say that's accurately impacting the game?
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Rob
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Steele
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:35 am |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 29 Nov. 2005 (05:44)) | Lion,
I guess the question is - do people thing the Stingray is serving its purpose as is?
My guess is that most feel its working.
I think its a very infantry centric piece, but considering the smaller payload - would you say that's accurately impacting the game? |
The Stingray is the most potent infantry killer Tau?s have this time, even some AV can be targeted with the Seekers. So far I take them with an upgrade and hunch 12 AP 3+ Hits with it?s main Weapons. Horde heavy Armies will have a bad day if you take more than 1 fully exploited Contingent. Very scary.
Cheers!
Steele
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Lion in the Stars
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:40 pm |
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I had to ask you guys since I can't get any of the local 40k guys to play Epic. (one guy still remembers the Imperial Artillery army, and doesn't want to start another game where one army is that badly broken, and his attitude infects the others)
If it's pretty much where you think it 'should' be (based on it being a 'Tau Whirlwind'), then it's prefectly fine. Now all I have to do is rewrite the fluff to something that sounds like a non-military person would write. I hate my job somedays.
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Tactica
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:09 am |
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Lion,
It depends upon whether you are looking at it from how its working in the list today vs. how you may want it to work in the list.
I think the whirlwind is far better than the stingray from flexability in E:A. The whirlwind affects both AP and AT targets and does a pretty good job at it.
The stingray is very focused on doing one thing good, and almost completely sacrifices AT capability in return.
Is that good? Many love the unit.
Personally, I use the Stingray about 30% of the time. I don't use the Stingray that much as if my opponent doesn't have a significant amount of infantry, what am I using the Stingray for?
Its the same problem I used to have with the Stealth before it could teleport.
Now the stealth have some flexability in their use that's more in line with they way they should work, which is marking and annoyance along with AP damage potential if I get them close enough.
I don't necessarily disagree with your vision of where the Stingray could be, I might use it more then. However, I am but one. The masses appear to be quite happy with how the Stingray is performing. Heck, some even call it their favorite formation. So, I'm OK with that too. 
Cheers,
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Rob
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Lion in the Stars
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:04 am |
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Yeah. The biggest thing I was concerned about (and what I got thinking about) was the ap5+/at6+/aa/5+ that was proposed for the Skyray. 2x 75cm shots with that statline would make the Stingray obsolete, and bring the 'submunition missile' close to what I had in mind originally. While rate of fire greater than 2 is definitely better than a blast marker, a rate of fire of 2 is probably pretty close to even with a blast marker (certainly is in 40k). I'm all for upping the effectiveness of a Sting/Skyray (maybe even making them the same unit!) as long as they are worth their points (whatever that may actually be). Right now, it seems like they're appropriately effective for 75 points each.
Would going to 3 shots for 100 points each be too strong?
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Tactica
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Post subject: Stingray and the Armoured Cadre Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:15 am |
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Just out of curiousity, if you wanted more bang for your 4 model Stingray investment, why not just add 2 more stingray via the upgrade?
Wouldn't that satisfy your concern? Afterall 4x stingray = 250.
Adding 2 more stingray gives you 6 models for another +125 or 375 total.
You can still add 1 Skyray and 4 piranhas to that for +75 and +100 respectively.
Do you think you need more of the same Stingray shots in this formation at this point?
Col_S, not challenging btw - just trying to understand the perspective and motive.
Cheers for your thoughts,
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Rob
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