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Tau support Crafts and Spacecrafts for 4.2
Honda	Post subject: Tau support Crafts and Spacecrafts for 4.2 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:44 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	I don't know why we couldn't? I noted the mentioning in IA3 as well, but since I'm not to the point where I'd want to field a Manta yet, didn't bring it up. Good catch though and an interesting question. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Tactica	Post subject: Tau support Crafts and Spacecrafts for 4.2 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:15 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Sounds the question is: Should the SC models be allowed to go on board WE in general or at least the Manta? Hmm.. if I had the chance, how would it impact my decisions otherwise? If I wanted to put him on board something, I would then be picking between the Dragonfish or Manta in this case. Its an interesting question... but I'd say lets get the units all worked out, and then consider where the SC should or shouldn't be allowed to go - after the units themselves are all working as desired. Then, at that time, we can decide whether or not adding a SC causes any balance issues to the unit in question. Sound like a plan? I'll add "Should the SC models be allowed to go on board WE in general or at least the Manta?" to the list of questions Gary. Cheers for the idea, very interesting, _________________ Rob
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Nerroth	Post subject: Tau support Crafts and Spacecrafts for 4.2 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:35 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	Don't forget the Aun! (I'd imagine the Ethereal at the Shas'o's side if the latter is on board either craft...) Problem is, the Dragonfish can't be properly worked out without the shas'o question decided - that's the whole point of the vehicle (which in retrospect would make it useful in scenarios only where Mantas aren't readily available - which would you rather be on board?) Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Tactica	Post subject: Tau support Crafts and Spacecrafts for 4.2 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:22 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Aun point noted and will add it as well. Agreed on the Dragonfish. Riding a manta has its ups and downs I would think - just generally speaking and no pun in intended... One does wonder, always being seen and moving in to drop off troops in gi-normous titan like vessel vs sitting back with the Narwhal's out of LOF and in cover... different commanders may have different perspectives on where they want their shas'o even in games of 5000+ points. Ergo, lets hold off, put this concept in the questions que, and get all the units working first. We can revisit this one later. Agreed? _________________ Rob
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Nerroth	Post subject: Tau support Crafts and Spacecrafts for 4.2 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:46 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	All right, as long as we don't forget about it entirely... Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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baronpiero

Post subject: Tau support Crafts and Spacecrafts for 4.2 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:56 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:38 pm Posts: 186

Sorry for being so late to answer. At least I had the time to chew on various ideas in the meantime. Tactica BTW: all tournaments that I've seen locally are 3K games. In those events, one would receive 1K points of aircaste. However, I have heard that the GT size is 2700 points by various folks online... though I don't know where they've gotten that from. It's my case as well. The 2 events I've participated were 3000 points games. I also checked the WPS, and it seems this year tournament was 3000 points (GT rule sets are available as a template at http://www.players-society.com/). So my initial point -making the Manta playable at 2700 points- is obsolete now. Tactica I also like the idea of keeping things close to the 40K models, but as we all know, we cannot always do this as a list has to be balanced in the end and work in E:A

I completely agree here. The way the unit play in Epic:A should be our main concern. 40K mirroring IMO is a positive side-effect, and should be nothing more. But is a real plus when possible.

TacticaIn 40K it has a frontal hull armor of 13 and 10 Structure points. It also always has a 4+ Invunerable save against all shots. In Epic it currently has an equivilent armor to a Hammerhead and but only has 8 DC and has a variable save.Just a detail here: you have to take into account the Reroll if you want to translate armor save properly. 4+RA is a match for armor 14 in 40K, whereas 5+ RA or a single 4+ save are closer to armor 13 in 40K.

Tactica
In that same veien, Tau are known to have a problem in the number of MW in the list. The current proposed v4.2 aircaste have some formations that work to rectify it (we'll see if they do in playtest).
Yes. We should give Tau more MW/TK Weapons as long as they do not become mass destruction ?weapons like Gargant MW Barrages and Revenant Pulsars. I find your proposal of "2X heavy rails" in the WIP reasonable -for a 850 pts Manta-. To be true I playtested it in v4.0 and had no problem with it. It felt right for 850 pts.

[/i]In the v4.2 list, we start to accomidate for its loss of resilence from 40K and its weapon loadouts change to work to satisfy it's intended roll of being our Warlord titan equivilent


==> Which leads me to the heart of the problem I was chewing on : what do we want the Manta to be a match for? Is it right for us to want the Manta on par with the Warlord Titan, which is the pinnacle of Mankind Titan technology? I'm not sure about that for the moment. That's my only concern with the 850 pts Manta in the WIP: it appears to be balanced, but I am not sure it feels right.

>850 pts pictures the Manta as the ultimate anti-titan weapon.
>750 pts pictures the Manta as the best thing Tau can come-up with to deal with Titans so far.

You see the trick?



Could it be possible to place the shas'o and/or Aun onboard the Manta in its command deck - as opposed to its hangar bay - in larger battles, instead of relying on a Dragonfish?

That would be great, has precedent in other armies and feels right.

I am not sure I would use the option that much for the moment tough:

- When using a planetfalling Manta, a shas'o is best-used already deployed on the ground to reroll the spacecraft activation roll. You also have to consider that the Coordinate fire ability is more useful when a small formation coordinates a big formation, as if you miss the activation roll, only the small leading formation has to take a hold action.

- The ethereal would only bring leader for 75 pts it seems quite expensive!

But in the end I like it and wish this could be integrated into the Tau list at some point.


[i]Tactica
Should the SC models be allowed to go on board WE in general or at least the Manta?
I would rather think Manta & Dragonfish. In essence, only war engine that can provide decent protection to such an important charac