Tactical Command
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Testing the list through power gaming
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5300		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  semajnollissor [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
I?ve been thinking about the difficulties in playing against AMTL lists, and I have come to a point where I?m not sure about something. I wonder, assuming a typical 2700-3000 point tourney, what is the most powerful or abusive list that can be made using the current AMTL list?

I?ve faced several variations, but the most common I?ve seen is the all-titan list. Now, an all-titan list is powerful, but it is rather easy to out maneuver. So, as long as you can resist taking the titans head-on, and you hide enough of your forces within double range of the objectives until the third turn, then you should win the game. The tactic isn?t very satisfying, but it does work. Therefore, I figure the ?all-titan? list isn?t the most powerful or abusive list that the AMTL can use.

So, if I wanted to power game the list, what would you suggest? Being specific helps, but barring that it would help if you used the following shorthand for the different types of formations that can make up an AMTL list. The choices for the list can be broken down into titans, heavies, mediums, and lights. ?

To explain, when I say Titan, I generally only mean battle titans, which means one big, generally fearless unit that can take a lot of punishment. This group includes ordinatii, but not warhounds. Heavies generally include the heavy knights, the normal knights in large groups, and warhound pairs. Mediums include normal knights in non-upgraded formations, LR tanks, individual warhounds, and maybe praetorians in transports. Lights include all the cheap stuff (generally less than 250pts).

Anyway, what do you think is the most abusive possible AMTL list? If we can figure that out, we can start making the list more fair.
Author:  clausewitz [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
I would be very interested to see what people think about this.  The same question was asked back on the old SG forum and no really conclusive answer was forthcoming.

With so many options available and the ability to tailor the weapons it tends to be rather subjective.  Example a Reaver with 2x Volcano Cannons and 1x TLD is great against a WE-heavy enemy list, but 3x VMB is much better facing an ork horde.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if the list included a Reaver with 2x Quake Cannons and 1x CLP.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
Best list is the all (or near all) Warhound list. There should be a couple of batreps between me and Dystartes showing this.
Warhounds, maybr a reaver for BTS/Artillary support, Hydra.
Author:  Justiniel [ Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
I too would assume the warhound list to be the best, small enough to buy plenty to keep activations up and keep all the objectives covered, large enough to take a fair bit of pummeling before they go down. And as Chris says a reaver for BTS/fire support.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
CI still with the AM ?  Or did Orwellian "new speak" remove them ... again ... :D  :;):
Author:  semajnollissor [ Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
I don't think the CI is in the list (based on the idea that it is an IG command vehicle, and the AMTL list was full enough at this point in testing - maybe back when more has been settled).

As for the all-warhound list, would it be brought to heel (heh heh) if the warhound singleton was dropped from the list? Is such an action acceptible to most AMTL players?

If not, could Warhound singletons be bumped up to 300 pts or 325 pts each? At that cost, one activation would be lost from a 2700 pt list.

Or, what about if singleton warhounds were limited to a 0-1 choice, with the fluff being that if there were two individual warhounds available, they'de be paired up as a matter of standard operating procedure. That way, you could still run an all warhound force, but you could only have 1 by itself.

I think the last option is the best, since it doesn't limit the composition, just the number of activations.
Author:  mageboltrat [ Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
Quote (semajnollissor @ 08 Feb. 2006 (18:17))
Or, what about if singleton warhounds were limited to a 0-1 choice, with the fluff being that if there were two individual warhounds available, they'de be paired up as a matter of standard operating procedure. That way, you could still run an all warhound force, but you could only have 1 by itself.

I suggested this one back on the SG forum before the move... At the time I thought that AMTL was too hard.. I don't know if I still think that. I do think that the AMTL should have to make a choice.. Small number of activations and big fearless units. Or a largee number of activations and non fearless support units... being able to take warhound singly. means you get lots of fearless formations
.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
Thanks ... so the CI may be with the AMTL in the Future. And Frankly ... I think any force with more than 1 or 2 Titans is power gaming, IMO ... unless both sides have titans ...  :p   :;):
Author:  dysartes [ Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
L4> THe CI is out of the AMTL force, but if/when I get around to looking at a Skitarii list, rest assured it'll show up in there.

I've got one of the little beggars on myshelf - I *will* find a way to get him into an army list :)
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
I agree that the CI doesn't belong with ATML.

Dysartes, I'm glad you're going to include it on the skitarii list, especially since I just finished painting my CI with my Titan Legion's colors! :D
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
My CI is with my SM's Rgt'l HQ ... and I have a "looted" one with my Orks ! :;):  So mine are employed ! :;):
Author:  -AL [ Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
The 0-1 for Warhounds sounds like a good idea, but other lists can take them individually, so it seems odd.  Maybe some other reason to keep them paired should be founds, such that they work better that way.
Author:  semajnollissor [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Testing the list through power gaming
Well, the warhound pilots are supposed to be a pretty wild bunch. I would think that if they were sent of to bolster an IG or SM army, where they weren't under the direct command of a TL princeps, they would be fine with going solo. However, I could easily accept that in an army commanded by a hard-a** TL princeps, the hotshot warhound pilots would follow standard procedures, lest they be drawn and quartered.
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