| Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ |
|
| Repost from SG site http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5279 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Blarg D Impaler [ Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Repost from SG site |
Just when you thought it was safe!!! ?I've made it here! Bwahahahaha!!! Sorry if this is in poor netiquette, but I thought that this should be reposted here for further commentary. ? One of the things that was never done regarding the AMTL was a basic statement of "How are the AMTL going to work?" ?This goes a little along those lines and helps quickly relate a basic framework that I think bears interest. ?Anyway, here it is: First off, there has been a lot of discussion about upping the costs of the various titans, something that I support for the most part. I have always contended that Warlords should cost their original 850 points and that Reavers should cost their original 650 points. Keep in mind where the original point cost reductions came from - an attempt to make Warlords and Reavers worth their points cost before the Jervis Power Boost. The cost reduction never seemed to go away because it was thought that the AMTL should get a point cost break on titans due to the AMTL's ease of getting titans. Hmm, economic principles affecting game point cost balancing... I do not support raising the cost of Warhounds. They have been shown to be worth 250 points a piece, 500 points a pair. In a 3000 point game I would not call a single warhound, over 8% of your force, a "cheap" activation, and a pack of 2 Warhounds, being 1/6 of your points total, would definately not count as a cheap activation. If you want to better manage your activations, in this case to lower the number of allowed activations, you can do this through the army list structure. Shift more of the support formations into upgrades. All of the cheap activations that are to be found in the AMTL army list are support formations. 5 of the 7 regular Support Formations are 200 points or less. Does the AMTL really need to have independently operating formations of Skitarii, Field Guns, Leman Russ, or Praetorians? Why aren't these guys being good little AMTL boyz and worshipping titans as they follow them into battle? What are the real purpose of the Sentinels? Take all of the battlefield roles that need to have an independent formation and create a support formation to go in that slot. Everything else becomes an upgrade to a titan, Ordinatus, or Skitarii company. Hydras should be allowed to operate independently. That is, unless we'd like to create a Space Marine like weakness and mandate that the only way to get a Hydra is to attach one to a Core Formation. Field artillery (should reality ever set into the AMTL list) should be allowed to operate independently. As the title "Support Formation" would indicate, field artillery batteries are there to support an AMTL offensive. The AMTL would need scouts / pickets, and lone Warhounds fit the bill rather nicely. Fast, good firepower, and fairly resilient these guys are perfect AMTL scouts / pickets. Enact the special rule I've suggested where lone Warhounds can occupy the Garrison objectives and they start to live up to their name (and background) of Warhound Scout Titans. Fast Attack? Sounds like a job for Warhounds. If we feel especially benevolent we may want to keep the 6x Leman Russ formation as a support formation, but I'd suggest making a 3x tank LRuss platoon an upgrade. Keep in mind that a player can take Knights for this, also... I'm probably missing a couple of roles, but time constrains me from wracking my brain. Feel free to chime in. Oh, and one other thing: I'd make there be a minimum of 1 Battle Titan, all Warhound armies are counter to fluff and rather cheesy. Suggested Resulting Army List Core Formations Warlord - 850 points Reaver - 650 points Warhound Pack - 500 points Ordinatus (Mars) - 400 points Skitarii Company - 450 points Support Formations Single Warhound Titan - 250 points Basilisk / Bombard Battery - 200 points Hydra Battery - 150 points Upgrades LRuss Platoon - 200 points Skitarii Platoon - 200 points Field Gun Platoon - 175 points Praetorian Platton - 200 points Sentinel Platoon - 100 points All of the other upgrades in the Vault List + talked about additions... Allies 2x Imperial Navy Thunderbolts - 150 points (no restrictions) All of the various Knight formations End Result Warlords, Reavers, potential Ordinatus, and Warhound Packs will have tanks and infantry surrounding them since the upgrades will have to maintain unit coherency with the WE. A couple of Skitarii companies will probably be thrown in for bulk and garrisoning objectives (assuming that single Warhounds are not allowed to do that). Various support and Knight formations pepper the field. Since the titans have support they will not be clumped together for mutual support, yet the clumps of "Titan and friends" will be powerful formations. Since the upgrades are (relatively) easy to kill the powerful formations will slowly, yet surely, get whittled down. There will be a limited number of activations since there are a limited number of independent formations to choose from. So, what do you think? |
|
| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Repost from SG site |
Tis an interesting idea and I'll mull over it on holiday. |
|
| Author: | Tactica [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Repost from SG site |
That's a whole lot stuff to chew on.... there's some pretty big deviation from what the list looks like right now. I'm assuming that Dysartes and developers are taking the list in the direction desired for playability as well as background. I'm assuming at this stage, there are reasons for units/formations/upgrades that have made it into the list. I'd be quite interesting in reflecting on this post after we get some v2 games in and see how the list is really playing at that time. Very interesting comments though... thougth provoking stuff there. |
|
| Author: | Grimshawl [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Repost from SG site |
Hi Blarg, glad to see you've joined us. Grim |
|
| Author: | Lion in the Stars [ Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Repost from SG site |
Hi, Blarg! Interesting points you've raised. |
|
| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Repost from SG site |
Back from busyness, marselling thoughts |
|
| Author: | Blarg D Impaler [ Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:09 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Repost from SG site | ||
Tactica - I don't know if you followed any of the "discussion" that occured on the old SG Forums, but from what I have seen the work on the list is a bit baffling. (My opinion, of course.) I think I have seen more inspiration for the AMTL background drawn from Inquisitor than from previous editions of Epic. OK, hyperbole on my part, but still I have seen this list taken in directions that I would not have taken it, and I have seen assumptions and changes based upon "background" that make me want to scream. Part of the problem is that compared to the volumes of background info that have been generated for the Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Eldar, and Orks there is very little definitive info (in my opinion) about the AMTL. This can be overcome if there is an orderly progression of defining the AMTL from the ground up: basic declarations about unit organization, basic declarations of unit availability, what units will fill what battlefield roles, etc. A lot of this has been done after the army list has been made, though, which makes it meaning less since it never gets represented in a rather haphazardly thrown thogether list. Look, you guys can look this over and think about it as much as you want. While I appreciate the (thankless) work that dafrca and Dysartes have put into the army list, I currently think it is somewhat flawed, minimally follows background/precedent, and unbalanced. If you guys decide to do something with my suggestions then I'll be here to help. Otherwise I'm only going to pay attention and chime in out of morbid curiosity more than anything else. |
|||
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|