Page 1 of 2

[ 22 posts ]

Go to page 1, 2  Next

WIP v2 Platest Results -
Tactica	Post subject: WIP v2 Platest Results - Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:06 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Hey all, I got the "Titan Pen" campaign game in this past weekend. 4K AMTL v Speed Freak Orcs. They orc player had a little over 200 models in his army, I had roughly 37 models! We went with titan's needing 50% assault AND tactical weapons - not just tactical weapons. We also allowed a minor shortfall in titan points as it wasn't going to be pretty as is... AMTL went with 1) Warlord 1 - PF + Multiple Rocket Pods + 2 Quake Cannons - CML - Legate 2) Warlord 2 - PF + Multiple Rocket Pods + 2 Quake Cannons - CML 3) Ordinatus Golgotha 4) Hydra 1 5) Hydra 2 6) Cataphract Cohort 1 7) Cataphract Cohort 1 Cataphract Cohort 1 9) Thunderbolts + Thunderbolts Orks went with something like the following (don't know if I have that right exactly) I know he had basically all trucks with boyz and 8 buggies or more in each formation. There was a flak wagon in each formation and nobs plus boss type orcs with 45cm MW hand guns. 1) Uge Mob (supreme cmdr) + flak 2) Big Mob + flak 3) Big Mob + flak 4) Big Mob + flak 5) Big Mob + flak 6) Big Mob + flak 7) Mob + flak Mob + flak Right, this game was crazy. He had so much stuff. If he wasn't actually playing like an ork, I was done for. I couldn't have killed half of that stuff. He spaced it all out in deployment and was rather menacing looking on the field with all those models. Basically he could zoom 70 cm and then shoot 45cm at best. He would then charge on the following turn. I managed to break plenty of formations thoughout the game and titans and tanks would only engage units that moved into range of fire after they activated, but I was picking on the smaller and big formations for the most part. I wouldn't get charged until late in turn 2. He plowed over a flank hydra formation without effort. I then broke the formation from my fire. He would then gake the UGE formation (that had been softened up by my Golgotha for two turns already) and charge into two warlords that were intermingled together. He managed to get about 30 units in FF range of the titans and 3 were in base to base with one titan while 2 stands were in based to base with the second titan. With exception to the three models on the Warlord titan, all attacks went to Warlord titan 2. He knocked down all void shields on Warlord 2 and did no lasting damage. He did nothing to Warlord 1. AMTL Return attacks were pretty severe. Both PF's crushed the base to base goods and FF was pretty dead on. Orc saves aren't so great, so victory to the AMTL ensued. This was the titanic battle. There was no supporting fire from either side. At the end of turn 2, the orc player only had 3 unbroken formations. Only one of them had actually died to the man... err.. ork. Frankly, he had some bad dice in rally's three turns in a row. We tallied it, he was rolling slightly below average on rallys both first and second turn. Thus far, he had only killed a single hydra formation. I wasn't positioned for squat though. On turn 3 he activated and rolled a 1 on a formation that already had a blast marker. Reroll from supreme commander was gone from combat in turn 2 with the uge formation... so he held and regrouped. Now he only had two formations left to activate and I had my entire army - less one hydra unit. He decided to retain and put a hurt on a hydra formation that he could charge. He races forward only get into base to base with 4 of the 6. He does receive all of his dice but the formation has blast markers and I had none. He manages to successfully kill 1 leman. I return and kill 3 ork units. Dice off  and I get 3 - he gets 6. He gets +2 for unit size and I get +2 for blast markers bonus - no inspiring. Cohort breaks and lose a model, orks take three more blast markers. At this point - I've not taken an activation on turn 3 and he has one formation left to activate. I have 7 formations to activate. I probably cannot win the game. I definitely cannot get to where I need to on turn three as my AMTL is still to slow and objectives are far apart on a 4x8 table. On the other hand, I can break the remaining two units likely, or put some hurting on broken units that are scattered all over the table. Either way - not a good prospect for the Orks. I have units within 30 cm of all of his broken formations - or can have by the end of the turn - making at best - his rally roll is a 4+. With double on turn 2 and then tripples on turn 3, I can probably win the game if enough units do as ordered... and assuming he continues to roll below average on rallies. The orks have a real chance to win if they can regroup on end of turn three - but getting to end of turn three will be costly. If they don't rally at the end of turn three - they are in for further big gun punishment on turn 4 and would lose the game without some descent to above average rallies. Definitely a gamble to consider here. As this is a campaign game - he has to contemplate permanent losses in the campaign from his campaign bank if we go on. Although he might rally well on the end of turn three and push the draw on turn 4, he decides the risk of doing so may be too great. Too many of his commander models in his units have already died and they are the workhorse of his army. After his two activations on thurn 3, he concedes to avoid further damage. AMTL secures the Imperial Guard the Titan Pens - it's somewhat a hollow victory though. The win felt too much like a gimme due to a conservative player in a non-campaign setting, the orks would have pushed on. We assumed he wouldn't lose but one more formation due to my firing... he there fore rolled as is for grins just to see how he would have rallied in the end phase - assuming I didn't do too good in shooting and assuming no models moved from where they were. He would have rallied more than half of his broken formations had he not conceded... In hindsight, he didn't play the right army, but the army could have done fine. He spent a lot of time fiddling with spacing of his units when moving them under double - so that the front units went full speed, but the back units were really getting stretched out and not taking full advantage of their move. This turned into his demise. First, he couldn't get the move he wanted. Second, he was having some space challenges when trying to keep up with his 'spacing' manouvre. Furthermore, my damage would chew the front units up and he would continually be set back by his own units not taking full advantage of their move on the previous turn. We thought about his tactics post match and decided that had he operated in either of two modes, he would have easily won. 1st - he could have just doubled everything and not worried about spacing. More would have died to my barrages, but he would have engaged on turn 2 with a lot of his army and quite a bit would have gotten in base to base. 2nd - he could have crowded the objectives, and ignored charging toward me - forcing me to come to him. Chances are, I woudln't have been able to do enough to knock him off of the objectives. He could have focused on my warlord supremem commander and nothing else and achieved break their spirits. Keeping me off of his side with that kind of model count would have been relatively easy. As far as the AMTL list goes, I think 50% titans is a pretty brutal requirement. Also, I think the 50% of weapons on battle titans needs to include assault and tactical. I think the titan formations need to have 'add ons' for their formations. The orkamedies mob has mini-titans that can be added to the big titans to create formations. It also has some fun stuff such as teleporting a titan down with his formation. They also have units that can not only shoot, but can really put out a beating in h-t-h combat. I think our servitors could use a face lift in the combat and staying power department - think something like obliterator units. The AMTL list has a real speed problem. I guess it can be made up in warhounds, but warhounds become staple land grabbers. There's also no skimmers in the list. Vultures would be a nice add to the list to give a real threat. To me, there are only two threats in the list. Cataphract Cohorts and titans. Everything else is pretty much a joke. Even the golgotha is novelty in the end. 3 hits and no add ons means this guy is always broken after coming under fire 3 times. That's pretty sad. Base knight configurations have the same problem. Knights need 2 DC each with no points increase or they need to remain and 1 DC each and become additions to the titan formations instead of stand alone formations. They are pretty pricy as is too. The requirement to take paladins first means these guys are uber expensive if you really are just after the firefight knights. My early thoughts (only two AMTL games under my belt) are that it's a fun list because of the big firepower - but it lacks tactical tricks. It needs quite a few bonus' to contend with chaos, IG, orks, and swordwind eldar. Hope that helps somebody out there. Now... back to IG and tau games (and waiting patiently for chaos update) _________________ Rob
Top

nealhunt

Post subject: WIP v2 Platest Results - Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:34 pm

Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA

On turn 3 he activated and rolled a 1 on a formation that already had a blast marker. Reroll from supreme commander was gone from combat in turn 2 with the uge formation... Huh?  Is this a house rule? SCs get to reroll 1 initiative test per turn.  There are no initiative tests related to assault resolution. ==== Regarding AMTL speed - yep.  The AMTL forces are all about your initial deployment.  Their powerhouses simply aren't fast enough to redeploy.  If you goof it up, there is no recovery. I do, however, think that's okay from a play feel perspective. You might want to contact Real Chris about some of those issues.  Needless to say, being the Siege IG champion, he has a lot of insights about forces where deployment is of supreme importance. _________________ Neal

Top

Tactica	Post subject: WIP v2 Platest Results - Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:52 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	NH, I probably wasn't clear. He tried to activate and already had a blast marker on the formation. As he was trying to do a double, he received +2 to the dice roll but he also had a blast marker so he recieved a -1 to activate. His base initiative is 3. Therefore, he needed a 2 to successfully activate. He rolled a 1. He didn't have a SC as he already died. Therefore, he had to hold. In a hold, one gets to move, to shoot, or to regroup. He performed a regroup action. Tis all. _________________ Rob
Top

Tactica	Post subject: WIP v2 Platest Results - Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:56 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Quote (nealhunt @ 01 2005 Aug.,20:34) Regarding AMTL speed - yep.  The AMTL forces are all about your initial deployment.  Their powerhouses simply aren't fast enough to redeploy.  If you goof it up, there is no recovery. That's definitely the way it currently is. I'll agree. I think that's a problem though. I do, however, think that's okay from a play feel perspective.

Understood. We disagree though. I don't think a list should be designed in such a way that it must deploy a certain way in order to have a chance. Flexability and the ability to change your tactics mid game makes these games quite enjoyable. I feel the list is to stringent on deployment - so much so that it hinders the game if your opponent doesn't cooperate with you. Not a good list for tournament style conditions IMHO.


You might want to contact Real Chris about some of those issues.  Needless to say, being the Siege IG champion, he has a lot of insights about forces where deployment is of supreme importance.

Understood, but even they are more flexible. I'm pretty confident in my general ability to play both tactically as well as strategically. Thanks for the heads up though.