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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 11 2005 Aug.,16:22) | Range:
Titan's primary firepower is 60cm, with a 15-20cm move.
Preds firepower is 45cm with a 30cm move.
If you have to double to get in range of a titan, a titan can't reach you at all. ?Move-shoot range is roughly equal. ?Only a sustained fire duel would make a difference, but see below for that.
Titan return fire:
Preds move 30cm. ?Titan weapons have restricted fire arcs, carapace are FXF. ?Move out of the arc. ?At a minimum, you have prevented Sustained Fire. ?At best, the titan doesn't move forward and this big slow unit has now lost a turn of movement. ?Most likely, it will decide something else is a better target.
Damage:
First, the primary goal of fighting a titan is not to kill it. ?That's very hard. ?The goal is to break it so that it cannot fire or control objectives.
With respect to actual damage, on a normal move, Preds average just shy of 5 shots. ?You are already trying to flank it to be out of its weapon arc, so there is a good chance you will get crossfire. ?Even Warlords with Thick Rear Armor take extra BMs for crossfire, and Reavers without TRA lose a big chunk of their saving throws. ?Those 5 hits on a Reaver will average 2 points of damage and 4 BMs to a crossfired Reaver, 1 point of damage and 3 BMs to a crossfired Warlord.
You may disagree, but I call that a real threat.
If you can get close to them, you can shoot, then support an assault for an extra 4 shots in the assault.
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There is a common misperception that only MW and TK are worth firing at a titan. ?That's not true at all. ?Disrupt weapons rock against tough targets. ?Only a few formations crossfiring can break such a target. ?High volumes of fire will pretty much always pay off eventually. |
I can see your logic on paper, but that just doesn't cross onto the actual battlefield.
Titans often have seriously superior range from the support weapons. The weapon of choice on my warlord for SMs is the Plasma Destructor. That's 90cm, not 60cm. And a sustained fire from that one weapon will trash a whole formation of predators, while a sustained fire from them might realistically do a couple of points of damage at best.
If your preds are getting round a titan's fire arcs, then we're talking about a) tripling or b) being terribly coy with them before a sneaky double. Let alone crossfire! At least for the first two turns, I'd be shocked if you crossfired me, and more suprised if that didn't leave both your units in a terribly exposed position. And I don't believe that you'd come even close to breaking a titan from shooting. You can break a titan by assaulting it... I've never had any titan (apart from Warhounds) get broken from shooting.
Obviously crossfire is the way to win games, but you stick two units 45cm apart with a titan in the middle without marching or leaving them hideously vulnerable to counter-attack - it'd be tricky. I've a problem with you saying 'there's a good chance of a crossfire.' Maybe if I triple my titans across the board turn one, but otherwise its not going to be that easy.
Lets look at damages - four predators, doubling to attack two warhounds. You're likely to do take down their shields, but not much more. Now the warhounds doubling are likely to kill at least three predators, breaking the remaining one. Now, clearly the Warhounds are worth more points, but a couple of assault squads could break the Warhounds in combat...
Hey, maybe that's just my experiences with them. Clearly they're not useless against titans (unless you just take destructors...  ), but they're just not worth the points when compared with other units. For only 75 points more (the cost of adding a vindicator), you could take an Assault Squad in a Thunderhawk. I know which I'd be more scared of with my titan legion.
I'm not saying that only MWs can hurt titans, but you have to have LOADS. Disrupt are great, BP can be good, but predators don't have them, and can't quite manage to be fast enough AND shooty enough to be a threat on their own. While they CAN be dangerous in conjunction with other units, for only 25 points more you could have some terminators, which are a whole lot more dangerous.
These are just my experiences - I don't play with SMs anyway, just against them. My opponent is a very canny player and although they may just not suit his playing style, the fact that they've been dropped entirely when facing my titans (whereas against my Inquisition force they're great) tells a great deal.
Lord Inquisitor.
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