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[ 4 posts ]

AMTL v2 WIP playtest result
Tactica	Post subject: AMTL v2 WIP playtest result Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:54 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Hey guys, Got an eldar game in this weekend with the AMTL. I practiced my list I thought I was going to play against the orcs in my upcoming 'don't lose more than half of your titans' battle. Well, this was the first of two games against the Eldar this weekend. I got my clock cleaned twice. (very unusual for me) The summary here is the AMTL did earn break their spirit, but that's it. The eldar did not gain break their spirit or blitz, but they got the other three. My warlord was down to 2 hits left. My titans were all that remained. Everything else was annihilated. I was able to kill two bike formations, 1 of two scout titans. 1 of 2 scorpion superheavies, 2 of his indirect light artillery vehicles.. and put some damage on a unit of falcons oh and I killed the avatar. He had the majority of his army well intact. His army looked something like (from memory): Small titan (holofield, reinforced, 35cm jet pack, 2x MW 3+ pulsars) Small titan (holofield, reinforced, 35cm jet pack, 2x MW 3+ pulsars) 2 scorpion WE (MW 2+ pulsar each) 2 Void night stalker WE (indirect, 3BP each, disrupt) falcon tank co's with 2 firestorms (pulsars & aa) falcon tank co's with 2 firestorms (pulsars & aa) jet bike squad w/wild riders, farseer, autarch, shining spears.. jet bike squad w/wild riders, farseer, autarch, shining spears.. prism tanks small indirect webber tanks some nasty pulsar planes My 4K army looked like (from memory): 950 warlord - CAP, VMB, 2 VC, CML, Legate 650 Reaver - CLP, QC, CML 650 - Reaver 2 - VMB, 2x MC, CML 450 - Ordinatus - sonic disruptor 250 - praetorian combat servitors with electro priest 100 - sentinels 100 - sentinels 300 - Paladins Knights w/Senschal 250 - Lancer Knights 300 - thunderbolts + thunderbolts turn 1 - eldar initiative won (they have +1) firing the scorpions from pop up, indirect from his superheavy void tanks, and advancing a titan with pulsars - he breaks the ordinatus, knocks down all of its void shields, and does two wounds to it! (eldar retain the initiative an extra time thingy...) (didn't get to activate the ordinatus) My indirect firing titan placed blast markers on his scorpions (that already fired) and did a wound, and killed another tank that was nerby). The eldar warp gated jetbike warhost and assaulted the reaver with meltaguns which was supported by the lance knights. We did 2 more damage than they did, but with inspiring on their formation, them having a larger formation and the dice roll, the titan broke and the knights got a blast marker - the eldar won and retreated back 35cm out of LOS due to their special rule. (reaver didn't get to activate) lance knights advance and fire on the titan that moved up to fire at the ordinatus. blast marker and no significant events. Second titan advances up to support the first eldar titan and throws some shots on the warlord nearby knocking down void shield and placing a blast marker. Nearby sentinels that garrisoned back behind the two eldar titans and crossfire one of them with the knights to take damage enough and blast markers to break it! (it doesn't move) Falcon tanks advance to wipe out all sentinels on that flank. Eldar retain to advance a second jetbike warhost to reinforce both titans and intermingle wth them. Warlord advances to engage the forward most unbroke titan in a firefight and deploys his contents of pretorians to engage the intermingled jet bikes all around. The knights will lend support. First striking knights kill some bikes and do nothing to the titan. actual attacks from knights do nothing to the titan. Pretorians get 4 kills on the bikes, and the titan gets 9 kills on the bikes. The bikes save some and kill all but two of the pretorians in return. with dice rolls and bike inspiring - its a draw - we go a second round, all but two bikes are killed (including the eldar titan) and the warlord takes 1 wound and both remaining pretorians died. A very costly AMTL h-t-h victory! Eldar planes come on and break the knights paladin after only killing one of them because they only have 1 wound each... lol, that was pathetic. came under fire and one loss breaks the formaton. they don't get to activate. The eldar tank co on this side of the field retain and break the sentinels on the left side of the field. The thunderbolts can't negotiate a safe path but find an avatar in the center of the field that came through a gate they can pick on. So they actually put a wound on him. no crit. Eldar prisms and something else with disrupt break the knights lancer but don't kill anything and their only place to run to is toward the eldar side of the field at a funny angle... Not so good first turn for AMTL. Rallying was disheartening. Ordinatus failed to rally. Broken reaver - failed to rally (enemy within 30 and broken was neg 3... I rolled a two and a three respectively failing both). Knight lancer did rally, but were on the wrong side of the field behind enemy lines. sentinel formation on the right failed to rally, sentinel formation on the left did rally. The knights paladin did not rally. The warlord failed to remove any blast markers but one void shield came back up. On turn 2, the second eldar titan would get blown away, but both knight units would parish to the man. both sentinel units would parish, the warlord would go down to 2 wounds remaining as he took the brunt of the turn 2 eldar pain. The indirect firing reaver would put more blast markers on the scorpions and kill one breaking the formation, but not until they fired. He would also finish off a broken command bike formation that was hiding by the scorpions after its reminnets were hiding post failing to kill a warlord with an earlier turn 2 charge. End of turn 2 would leave me with a rallied ordinatus that had two wounds on it and full shields now. warlord with 2 wounds on it but almost full shields, indirect reaver fully intact, and a broken reaver with melta that just rallied - and some planes. That's it. The Eldar rallied the single scorpion formation on the end of turn 2, but lost their break their spirit command bike formation. They also lost the second bike formation and two titans. The rest of their army was fully intact. I didn't have the move to contest his turn 3 positioning, and amazingly enough ... my ordinatus - my first activation of the turn - failed to activate twice in a row (supremem commander failed me) so outside of two more titans and planes - I had nothing to do to the eldar at this point and couldn't move fast enough to get anywhere. This was an unbelievably solid victory for the eldar and a rather disheartening if not demoralizing defeat for the AMTL. My post combat comentary are that knights suck... I mean really blow bad. For their points, they should have at least 2 damage each. The firefight lancers were OK, not great, just OK, but the fact that three pidly formations can fire on them and break them is just a bummer. One plane formation can take down one knight ant the unit breaks as it came under fire. Also, the requirement to take a paladin formation for each other formation is something that should be thrown out the window. I realize its in there for fluff sake, but it's a really bad play concept. It means if what I want is the lancers - they really cost me 500 points because I have to take this other garbage paladin unit first... in a list that requires 50% of the points be spent in titans - it means knights are something I'm never taking in the future. Sentinels were cheap formations, but in the end, didn't really serve well. Ordinatus breaking after three formations fire on it was sad... OMG that was sad. Eldar special rules allow them to break this guy on first turn with pop ups, indirect or short ranged units popping up after advance behind cover. Blah... this was a huge waste of points. 4 DC would have stopped this and would have been a welcomed change. The 450 point investment is already steep for a direct fire weapon. This ended up being a complete waste of points - like the paladins. Praetorians were a neat idea, but were just overwhelmed. For combat servitors, they are pretty piss poor in combat. The eldar could fight better. The electro priest should offer inspiring for sure. My thunderbolts were absolutely no match for the eldar planes. My CML were no detorant for the eldar planes. didn't have hydras... net result. planes had free rain of my lines. BTW 1) does CML take up a carapace weapon position? we were not playing it that way as we didn't see where it said it had too... if it does, that makes the upgrade unusable. 2) we were playing carapace multi lasers as 2x aa5+ with 30cm range - still didn't do anything - but as written, should it be only 1 shot? 3) Corvus assault pod is neat, but there should be a movement bonus with it. By itself, its not quite good enough to lose a weapon for. After all, you are going to lose a unit with it too after your first engagement as the praetorians are pretty unsuccessful. Your opponent will not engage you once he figures out your load outs. It was quite easy for the eldar to completely abandon my warlord. 4) no way I'd give up two weapons for devotional bell. The weapons are too key as there just aren't very many shots in this army that are quality. Auxilia just doesn't support the titans enough. The auxilia need a serious enhancement to make this list print worthy IMHO. Ok... well, that was my first game of AMTL. So, take all my comments from that perspective. This was my 3rd of 4 games against eldar too. The eldar list was the mostly armor variant which is really a tough variant. The pop up, pulsars, 35cm move across the board, spirit stones everywhere... etc... make the list really hard one to deal with. AMTL are not ready for Eldar - that I'm pretty sure of. I hope I can get a list ready for the Orks. _________________ Rob
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nealhunt

Post subject: AMTL v2 WIP playtest result Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:06 pm

Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA

I got my clock cleaned twice. (very unusual for me) I think you'll find that most people feel the Saim Hann list is currently overpowered.  The discounts for large bike formations are too large by a significant amount, allowing the Eldar to field relatively cheap horde formations, backed up by all their specialist abilities - a rather wicked combo. 1) does CML take up a carapace weapon position? 2) we were playing carapace multi lasers as 2x aa5+ with 30cm range - still didn't do anything - but as written, should it be only 1 shot? 3) Corvus assault pod is neat, but there should be a movement bonus with it. By itself, its not quite good enough to lose a weapon for. 4) no way I'd give up two weapons for devotional bell. [5)] Auxilia just doesn't support the titans enough. The auxilia need a serious enhancement to make this list print worthy IMHO.

1)  CMLs do not take a weapon slot.

2)  2 shots.  They are basically short-ranged versions of the Hydra.

3)  I think Corvus weaponry is specialty gear that, according to its background material, would be reserved for specialized applications like urban terrain and siege warfare, i.e. not in a GT list.

As with everything AMTL, though, opinions are varied, with little room for compromise.

4)  Yep.

5)  I think the problem is simply with the concept of a WE-dominant list.  Titans are hard to tackle and require concerted effort.  In light of that, most people spend the first part of the game picking off the Auxilia.  That leaves the AMTL player seriously out-activated and allows the opponent to concentrate forces to destroy individual titans.

I've actually decided to use most of my support formations behind the titans, with only the high-assault-risk titans worthy of screening formations.  It makes the titans a more tempting target and the support formations also gain the advantage of titans blocking LoS.