| Brood Brother |
 |
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
|
Well, here?s a quick repost.
Knights
Okay, I've never agreed. Months ago with the WE vs AV poll my position essentially ended up as either, it really comes down to the stats.
Currently I think the stats are off. Dafcra also points out he though the Paladin was the most common knight, currently in a knight orientated picked list it wouldn't be. I tend to agree, the Paladin should be the most common knight as existing fluff and even it load out seems to suggest a mainstay.
However if we want to of course 're-image' the background the Paladin could become the aristocratic elite, leading the other knights to battle. This would then justify the limited numbers a qualitative edge in hardware. I would still like to see a little rationalization of the stats however.
Looking at the Paladin knight and comparing it to the Leman Russ and Land Raider throws up an interesting image. Leaving aside void shields and looking at the weapons it carries firmly put it in the 'engaging' role. Its mobile but short ranged with it strengths really coming out in the assault.
But what strength in terms of brutal assault firepower! It is streets ahead of what I think are comparable units. Assuming an ideal situation (the paladin reaches CC) -
3 land Raiders with 6 twin lascannon and 3 twin heavy bolter will do on average 1 FF hit (max of 3 hits). 3 Leman Russ with 3 battle cannon, 3 lascannon and 6 heavy bolter do on average 1 1/2 FF hits (max of 3 hits) (I can see the argument for Land Raider getting 4+ FF  ).
3 Paladin with 3 battle cannon, 3 autocannon, 3 shock lance and 3 chain swords have 1 1/2 first strike FF hits followed by 1 1/2 normal FF/CC hits and and 1 1/2 MW CC hits (4 1/2 hits total on average with max 9 hits, 3 of them FS).
Even if it is just a FF the paladin still has 3 FS and and normal hits.
So is the Paladin really more then twice as good in a FF (due to FS) than a Leman Russ (3 times as good as a Land Raider) and more than 9 times as good in CC?
I think the stats really need a change, they are simply too far out ahead of other Imperial Equipment. At its core the change for me would start with the Paladin and be the FF and CC going to 5+ with other changes coming from there. It would also include cheaper unit prices and larger formations as well. More in a separate knight thread
And this is that thread.
Point 1 - Void shields. Voids shields make things damn tough to balance and mean the Paladin is stuck with a small unit size. I'm going to suggest one without void shields as one with is a tricky beast and they perform very strangely on the table top.
Baron
The current Baron is sorta alright, however he is too slow to keep up with the fast knights so...
War Engine
Move 30cm
Save 4+
CC 4+
FF 4+
Baron Cannon (name?), 45cm, 2x AP4+/AT4+
Power Lance, Assualt, Extra Attack (+1), MW, First Strike
Shock Lance, (15cm) Small Arms, Extra Attack (+1), First Strike
Notes: DC2; 1 Void Shield; Critical: The Baron?s head is destroyed, killing the pilot. The Baron is destroyed. Walker, Reinforced Armour, Commander, Inspiring, Fearless.
FF and CC stats in line with Paladin, speed up (so better countercharge and more chance to get into CC), CC attacks up as speed up and FF attacks down to make it more likely he will charge in.
Seneschal
No change.
Paladin
See above for reasoning
War Engine
Move 20cm
Save 4+
CC 5+
FF 5+
Cannon, 45cm, AP4+/AT4+
Autocannon, 45cm, AP5+/AT6+
Heavy Chain Sword, Base Contact, Assault, Extra Attack (+1), MW
Shock Lance, (15cm) Small Arms, Extra Attack (+1), First Strike
Notes: DC1; Critical: The Knights?s head is destroyed, killing the pilot. Walker, Invulnerable Save, Thick Rear Armour, Reinforced Armour
Knight Crusader/Castellan
Combine the descriptions for space? Void shields gone because in out test game they were untouchable and I think this would be repeated.
War Engine
Move 20cm
Save 4+
CC 6+
FF 5+ (Note it lacks the shock lance and has 2 basic attacks due to DC)
Bombardment Cannon, 90cm, 2BP, Macro Weapon
AND
Crusader Lascannon, 45cm, 2x AP6+/AT4+
OR
Gatling Autocannon, 45cm, 2x AP4+/AT6+
Notes: DC2; Critical: The Knights?s head is destroyed, killing the pilot. The Crusader is destroyed. Walker, Invulnerable Save, Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour
Knight Errant
Down stated a lot - these guys are the young inexperienced types so why stats so high? Still excellent at FF and CC due the extra attacks.
War Engine
Move 30cm
Save 4+
CC 5+
FF 6+
Thermal Cannon, 30cm, MW4+
And (15cm), Small Arms, Extra Attack (+1), MW
Power Gauntlet, Base Contact, Assault, Extra Attack (+1), MW
Shock Lance (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attack (+1), First Strike
Notes: DC1; Critical: The Knights?s thermal reactor is destroyed, destroying the knight and hitting all units within D3cm on a 6+. Walker, Reinforced Armour, Invulnerable Save
Knight Lancer
War Engine
Move 30cm
Save 4+
CC 5+
FF 5+
Cannon 45cm AP4+/AT4+
Thermal Lance, (15cm) Small Arms, Extra Attack (+1), MW
Shock Lance, (15cm) Small Arms, Extra Attack (+1), First Strike
Notes: DC1; Critical: The Knights?s head is destroyed, killing the pilot. Walker, Reinforced Armour, Invulnerable Save
Both the Errant and Lancer have came down in power too. This is to make them in line with the Paladin and also not be a 'better' pick than the Paladin, the idea should be if anything to be slightly worse in general but better in specialised fields. I do think however this puts them back into line with other human equipment and while the knights are still a lot better than other human gear they aren't streets ahead still.
Remember for all of this that your FF/CC values are not the measure of how good you are at CC/FF. Rather the average/total number of hits you get and what they are (first strike, MW etc) is the measure. A Baneblade is 3 times as good in FF as a Leman russ plus it can always firefight and has a higher chance of surviving first strike attacks. The fact they both have FF4+ does not make them equal.
_________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
|
|
