Matt - I think it's only really worth considering all-comers lists where you don't know what army you'll be facing (ideally lists for playtests should be written before knowing what you're playing for them to be fair and worh doing).
Sure the Deathstrike list would be nasty against enemy titans, but pretty poor against most armies. The shock and awe list doesn't look to me like it would live up to it's name either. Facing that I would spread out my formations as much as possible in my deployment to make sure each salvo only hit one formation, as well as making use of cover. Incidentally they could fire both missiles at once but the extra benefit would be small and it would be better off using them over two turns,
It was definitely the intent, though whether it's wise or not is debatable (many would argue low maximum activations should be part of a TL army list to balance it's advantages).
Vaaish wrote:
Just checked, and as written it does allow for this. Not sure this was the intent though since it comes from back when Ben reorganized the list. I think the only combination you could pull it off with is a bunch of sentinels though.
Matt - your Warhound list looks a bit tame compared to what you can do with the Epic-UK TL list.
To go off on a tangent briefly I'm thinking of taking something along the lines of the following to a 3k tournament (weapon differences noted in brackets):
1 x Warlord – Volcano Cannon, Hydra turret (as a main weapon, same as IG vehicle), Close Combat Weapon, Laser Burner (gives +3MW attacks to FF only)
1 x Reaver – Battle Titan Inferno Gun (as normal but 4BP rather than 3BP), and 2 x Close Combat Weapon
5 x Warhounds, armed as follows:
2 x Twin Vulcan Mega Bolters (12 x AP3+ / AP5+ shots per Warhound)
Twin Plasma Blastguns (6 xMW2+ shots per Warhound)
Twin Inferno Gun
Twin Scout Turbo Laser (as ours but reduced to 45cm range)
Also Matt, are you aware the Warhound critical was universally changed to take an extra point of damage as well as staggering? Plus in the Net-EA list the God Machines special rule means when any titan formation is destroyed all friendly formations in LOS receive a BM? It's not that hard to kill Warhounds really and the knock on effects can be significant and this needs to be factored into assessing the list as a whole.
Vaaish wrote:
I do have to say that while your report with Tau is shocking, it's very much in a minority. Definitely no where near the level of concern to warrant a massive shift in the list
Agreed! I won't base too much on a single playtest, particularly as Dobbsy seems to be constantly losing and complaining about the Tau list being underpowered. Myself and a couple of other Tau players I game with find the list plays competitively and my last two games involving Tau have seen them win. Also, for what it's worth, the Epic-UK online stats show the Tau list has played their Titan Legion list twice, with both being draws.
Vaaish wrote:
Support missiles have been around since Titanicus and capable of deployment on the Warlord and Reaver hulls.
I'm fairly sure support missiles and plasma destructors were both Warlord only and not available to Reavers in the Space Marine/Titan Legion era of the game? (anyone got a copy of titan legions around to check?) Simplest and IMO best fix would just be to make the support missile 0-1 per titan. If 10BP still proves powerful the barrage missile could also drop to 8BP too, like Epic-UK did with theirs (theirs doesn't even have disrupt either though I think they went too far in making it a poor choice). I don't see support missiles as that attractive a choice myself. Sure they're powerful, but only one use and leaves the titan rather lacking in firepower afterwards.
Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
Quote:
Plasma Destructor 75cm 6x mw2+, Slow Firing 75 pts.
The damage caused by up to 18 MW2+ shots from a Reaver at that range has to be seen to be believed; eg On average dice it could kill 15 Predators or 7 landraiders if only their formations were that large
I've seen suggestions for the amount of shots to be reduced, which is probably the simplest.
Recommendation: Plasma Destructor 75cm 4x mw2+, Slow Firing 75 pts.Yep, 6 MW shots is horribly,horribly overpowered and OTT an I've been strongly complaining about it since Vaaish introduced it. It makes no comparative sense for the PD to be better at killing non WEs than an Imperator's Plasma Annihilator.
It does seem a bit poor at it's original stats though, I don't see myself ever taking it. Perhaps it could have a 90cm range? (like the Plasma Annihilator or the Epic-UK Plasma Destructor).
If we're discussing changes and testing out a trial version of the list could we please for the love of god remove the sentinels and replace them with a more expensive robot formation?
In 40k and the background the AM have always been strongly associated with robots and use them frequently in their armies. Sentinels are a IG specific scout walker with no association with the AM. Backgroundwise and themewise they're completely inappropriate. The Skitiarii and Epic-UK TL lists have only robots and AMTL list really should too. Having a 150 point robot formation in place of Sentinels would help lower the activation numbers - helping make the list more balanced and fair to play.
Forge Knights should also be reworked (it's madness for a construction/repair robot to have infiltrate when no other Knight does) or replaced entirely with the Knight Palladin, but the Sentinels are my main bugbear with the list.
the original problems with the list were with people taking war hound armies. Is also why you are encouraged to put mixed weapons on them.
