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AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)

 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:41 am 
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Vaaish wrote:
The PDF at the start of this thread is the version of the list that is approved. The web version you referenced is supposed to be a copy of this list but it is not accurate to the PDF and doesn't include the collectors weapons.

I'd recommend just using the PDF for the time being and using the web version as a quick reference for weapon stats. If you spot a difference, use the PDF rules and stats.


They're both PDF files, but yeah, I get your point, that's it's just a question of the version on the main NetEA website not being as up-to-date as it claims to be. Thanks.

Next step - here's to hoping that ALL the specialty Titan Weapons make it into the main NetEA lists - I see no reason why each and every Titan shouldn't have access to all the vanilla Games Workshop Titan weapons like Vortex Missile, Titan Multiple Rocket Launcher, Barrage Missile Launcher, Harpoon Missile, Warp Missile, Fire Control Platform/Tower, Deathstrike Cannon, and Devotional Bell. Plus my favourite - Trident. And all the other Close Combat Weapons, which I guess are covered by the blanket CCW rule.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:23 am 
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:D

I think that the reason why "each and every" Titan doesn't have the full range of weapon combinations is that it would be an absolute nightmare to playtest and rebalance or effectively cost the upgrades against almost every Imperial army list in the game... It also prevents armies from tailoring a Titan to perfectly cover any built-in weaknesses in their main army list.


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:40 am 
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There is also the consideration that some of the items are rare and more difficult to obtain.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Isn't that the point of customizing a Titan? I mean you have this huge gargantuan vehicle stomper thing and you put a bunch of weapons on it and you go blow stuff up?

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:38 pm 
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Aye but you want game-play customization then you run the actual titan list or take one of the sub-faction lists that provide certain additional components/options.

So first of all, as already said above, providing any semblance of balance and testing has an inverse relationship with the number of permutations on the list. Hence why many lists have very structured design around a theme.

Second, lists, by design, have inbuilt weaknesses that need to not be easily compensated for by a giant walking machine of death (or actually any unit / formation whatsoever), hence why units/weapons are restricted.

Third, your weapons on your model really have very little limitation on what you play on the table. Let me give an example here: The Codex Marine list has a single Warlord loadout. Regardless of what Warlord you drop on the table with whatever weapons you have, I know what it does. I don't care that it has rubble claws and a wreaking ball glued on as it doesn't change the game-play. I'd look at that and go, "awesome titan, dude!" :)

Fourth, there's lists that specifically cater to titan-heads that want that extra flexibility (and in return have more restrictive structures/nerfs to compensate). So for full on titan craziness, that's AMTL but you could also play something like Iron Hands and Imperial Fists which have different Titan configurations that fit their theme.

Lastly, the NetEA lists are there for general tournament play. Nothing stops you from taking the structure from say, AMTL for costing and apply that to your nummy titan-of-stompy-doom (ToSD from now on :) ) and use that in friendly play in say the Steel Legion list.

Hopefully that clears some angst up for you, mate.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:29 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Lastly, the NetEA lists are there for general tournament play. Nothing stops you from taking the structure from say, AMTL for costing and apply that to your nummy titan-of-stompy-doom (ToSD from now on :) ) and use that in friendly play in say the Steel Legion list.

Hopefully that clears some angst up for you, mate.


This is exactly what my gaming group is open to - not every game you play has to be some no-holds-barred tournament style fight to the death....

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:37 pm 
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Just a question.

I used the 2014 compendium lists.
I reading now this 3.23.1 titan list version, and not sure about landing pad:
it's lost the ability to give indirect fire to BP weapons??

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:14 pm 
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When in doubt the approved PDF in the forum thread ALWAYS overrules anything on the Compendium list.

The CLP no longer gives indirect fire. Instead it lets you ignore LOF when you are on certain orders. This was done to end the 180cm quake cannon blitz guard arty titans.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:44 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
When in doubt the approved PDF in the forum thread ALWAYS overrules anything on the Compendium list.

The CLP no longer gives indirect fire. Instead it lets you ignore LOF when you are on certain orders. This was done to end the 180cm quake cannon blitz guard arty titans.


It's a relief that people are on top of eventually stopping broken stuff. Really should put a note up on the Compendium list download site when there's an issue, though, or just have your first sentence above be on that download page so everyone's on the same page.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:42 pm 
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Done with the read back of this topic. :)
I see there is some lenghty talk about plasma destructor.
I partyally know the old Titanicus fluff.

My idea about weapon classes:

Warhound: light titan weapons
Reaver: light and medium titan weapons
Warlord: medium and Warlord class titan weapons

Light Titan Weapons: (no change here)
-Inferno gun
-Blasma blaster
-Vulcan mega-bolter
-Turbo-laser destructor

Medium Titan Weapons:
-Apocalypse missile launcher
-Gatling blaster
-Melta cannon
-Plasma cannon (max 1 on a reaver, max 2 on a warlord)
-Volcano cannon
-Laser burner
-Close combat weapon
-Support missile (max 1 on a reaver, max 2 on a warlord)

Warlord Class Titan Weapons:
-Laser blaster /maybe put this to medium, with a max 2 restriction for reavers/
-Quake gun /not sure on this. Knights can use them, so reavers why not? But then max 2 for a reaver/
-Plasma destructor (max 1 on a titan)
-Carapace landing pad
-Corvus assault pod

Feels more organized, hm?

My thoughts about plasma weaponry:

Plasma Blaster: 45cm 2x MW2+ free
Plasma Cannon: 60cm 4x MW2+ 50p? (don't forget the restriction! 1 per reaver, 2 per warlord)
Plasma Detructor: 75cm 4x MW2+ TK(1) 75p (max 1 per warlord)

For the Imperator (annihilator is really a huuge leap in class, even compared to the PD)
Plasma Annihilator: 120cm 6x MW2+ TK(D3) or 8x MW2+ TK(1) (I like more the second one).

Well?

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:48 pm 
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JuronValor wrote:
Plasma Blaster: 45cm 2x MW2+ free
Plasma Cannon: 60cm 4x MW2+ 50p? (don't forget the restriction! 1 per reaver, 2 per warlord)
Plasma Detructor: 75cm 4x MW2+ TK(1) 75p

For the Imperator (annihilator is really a huuge leap in class, even compared to the PD)
Plasma Annihilator: 120cm 6x MW2+ TK(D3) or 8x MW2+ TK(1)

Now this idea I like. The PD steps up in power but not the number of shots. It still auto wipes non-RA and increases the killability of such units while also cutting the number of shots and restricting it to the Warlord at the same time. Nice one Juron.


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:20 am 
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Let see how the changes we've already discussed work for hte time being. If we revisit the plasma I'll bring it up then.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:41 am 
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I also liked the idea with the plasma weapons! Very clever!

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:29 am 
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Just a note guys, I went through some numbers on the plasma destructor compared to the proposal above and while it's a neat idea, The result of a change like this will make it easier for titans to wipe out WE threats like Shadowswords while making them a bit less effective against regular targets. Since some armies tend to have difficulty dealing with large amount of void shielded RA, I don't think we need to make it easier for titans to kill off RA by adding TK to the PD.

The game plan will remain as we previously discussed: continue using 5x shots on the PD. The next step if that's not enough will be to limit the PD to carapace only. If anyone had any games using the playtest changes over the holidays, I'd love to see the results.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL 3.23.1 (Approved)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:17 am 
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Ok then, perhaps just restrict the PD to Warlords and only one per Warlord as they used to be in the fluff.


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