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Let's talk about Skitarii

 Post subject: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:46 pm 
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With AMTL wrapping up for the moment, lets shift focus to the Skitarii list. It's been a couple of years since we've discussed the units in the list and since that time we've gotten a few additions to the AdMech military thanks to Forge World.

Reading through the list in the third HH book, it's pretty clear that what's represented is not skitarii however there may be some things we can take away from there that could apply such is how Secutors are deployed and the new transport AdMech has.

Some considerations:
1. This is a core AdMech list, it needs to have flexibility to represent a variety of forgeworlds despite being tied to Gryphonne IV due to the AMTL list. This means the list should contain units that are as iconic and representative of Skitarii forces as we can make it.

2. A lot of players had AdMech chimeras from early versions of the list and Chimedons are there both because of fluff that they were deployed to Tech Guard (skitarii) and to allow these players to continue using these models.

With that said, lets talk about Skitarii. Are they fun to play? do the represent Skitarii well? what should we change or add? What should we remove?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:09 pm 
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We should add defensive options like bunkers and Palisade walls.

We should add some kind of static defense lasers (think Necron Pylon minus the teleport kinda).

We could add an interchangeable objective (like the eldar wraithgate) for 25p that gives Inv Sace to all friendly forces within 15cm.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:17 pm 
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I know you really want defensive options but I've yet to hear a good reason why we should add it to the core list, especially when it's clearly not something iconic to Skitarii or even a defining attribute of Admech forces in general.

How do these options take priority over things we can point to specific fluff references or released units that we can clearly say are AdMech first and foremost?

What makes these options belong as part of the core list rather than an add on module?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Oh sorry, i thought you asked for what us players wanted to add to the list. But you want the debate going again! Sure, no problem! Will write a longer answer tomorrow!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:26 pm 
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Yes, if you really want something added and feel it needs to be part of the core list, we definitely need a more reasoned approach. I would like to see us have the core AdMech lists nailed down quickly so we can start hashing out addon modules and open up development of faction lists like Ordo Reductor or Legio Cybernetica.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:28 pm 
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I caution against a speedy approach on the other AdMech forces considering that for the first time actual new detailed AdMech specific units and formations are being produced. There's going to be some pretty major changes coming I think and I'd hate to drop back to the drawing board as new releases flip the script, so to speak. For instance just in the last 2 months we've seen a new infantry unit, 2 tanks, a robot, and a troop transport all 100% specific to AdMech forces. I'm not saying to do nothing but I cannot support any attempts to go beyond experimental with Skitarri and Cataphracti lists until we see what's coming.

Granted some of these new units have gotchas such as the Thallaxii being an Ordo Reductor unit and the Castellax being simply the High Gothic form of the venerable Castillian from way back when but the general point stands: there's big changes in fluff and the order of battle coming for the mechanicum so patience is the better route. Also I'll add that the Cataphractii are especially going to be effected by this and to my personal opinion, good riddance. The list, through no fault of your own mind you, is Guard Tanks in multiples of 5 of the rarer variants with interesting Character upgrades. Restructuring it around Krios battle tanks/venators and whatever that new heavy transport beast is going to be better I feel. They're only going to expand the range.

Also I feel the whole chimero/ax issue is a bagatelle. People with them in their collections can use them simply as a counts-as for whatever officially comes down the line. Basing ANY list design decisions on 20 year old out of print models is silly IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:37 pm 
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maybe aim to wrap up the skitarri as is, start testing and expanding the pdf and use the cataphtaci as the 'modern' Ad-mech army list?
By the time the skittarri list is wrapped up and the pdf is stable most of this forgewolrd batch should be out (he claims, with no evidence :) )

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:14 pm 
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This far Forgeworld has released a range of AdMech specific models, but not all of them fit with the scope of a core list.

Things that definitely should be considered are the new AdMech tanks for the Cataphractii list and the new transport. Other items like the Thallax are primarily part of Ordo Reductor and should go there rather than the core list. Tech Thralls are also quite out of place in Skitarii regiments (at least for the moment).

There's likely an updated Crusader model (they call these Vorax Battle Automa in the HHIII book)
We also now have a wide range of AdMech weapons to look at and potentially arm the skitarii with.

I think for the most part we are fairly safe with the units we currently have outside of changing what they are armed with a bit. I don't see FW removing Hypaspists (though we can hope they change the name) Secutors are already here and the two stands pretty well represents the max 10 of these per unit. I don't see Ordinatus going anywhere either and other than the colossus, we know Crusaders are staying though maybe with different weapons.

Things that are less safe would be Praetorians, though it's likely they'd have something similar, and Sagitarii which could be removed entirely or replaced.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:01 am 
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Update for weapons used by the AdMech forces. The questions here is... do we need to change anything other than names? For instance, giving Skitarii the Mauler Bolt Cannon. It's a a bit stronger and shorter ranged that the HB but I don't think it's enough to see a difference in Epic.

Mauler Bolt Cannon: 24 6/3 Heavy, Pinning
Las-Lok: 18" 4/6

Secutors:
Volkite Charger: 15" 5/5 Assault 2, Deflagrate
Graviton Gun: 18" */4 Heavy 1, Blast 3", Concussion, Graviton Pulse, Haywire
Irad-Cleanser
Phased Plasma Fusil: 24" 6/3 Salvo 2/3

Crusader:
Lightning Gun: 18" 7/5 Heavy 1 Shred,Rending
2x Rotor Cannons: 30" 3/6 salvo 3/4

Myrmadon Destructors ( bigger weapons for Secutors):
Volkite Culvern: 45" 6/5 Heavy 4 Deflagrate
Photon Thruster Cannon: 48" 6/2 Heavy 2, Lance, Blind, Gets Hot
Iradiation Engine
Conversion Beamer
Graviton Imploder: 18" */2, Salvo 2/4 Concussive, Graviton

Thoughts on impact or epic conversions for weapons?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Proposal:

Skitarii Demi-Century: Heavy Bolter -> Mauler Bolt Cannon, keep current stats?

Sagitarii: Assault Cannon -> Phased Plasma Fusil, keep current stats?

Gun Servitors: Heavy Bolter -> Mauler Bolt Cannon, same as demi-century?

Secutors: Multi-Melta -> Graviton Imploder, keep current stats?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:58 pm 
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What does the Concussive rule in 40k do now?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:09 pm 
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seems to make the target strike last in CC the next turn. Can't really see that translate in any meaningful way to Epic though.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:48 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
seems to make the target strike last in CC the next turn. Can't really see that translate in any meaningful way to Epic though.


Disrupt?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:58 pm 
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Yeah that's what came to mind as well

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about Skitarii
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 11:33 pm 
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It's not quite the same thing. Disrupt doesn't really have an effect inside CC beyond what the added BM do for resolution. The effect would be closer to giving the weapon First Strike and even that isn't exactly analogous since there isn't a prerequisite to damage the model in shooting prior to the assault.

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