This is a fairly minor update despite what it looks. Fixes for the Warhound critical that was incorrect and slight changes to the Apoc Launcher and GB to make them a bit more useful. CLP altered to follow the eUK single BP weapon style to promote less reliance on arty titans.

Changes:
Fixed Warhound critical effect rules

Deleted Gothic Cruiser

Ark Mechanicus gains Transport, loses Slow
and Steady

CLP: One BP weapon in the same formation as
the CLP gains Indirect Fire.

Apocalypse Launcher: 3bp Disrupt, 25 points

Gatling Blaster: 6x shots, 25 point

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-Vaaish

Is this the version we will playtest to approve or will there be another version for that?

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Barring anything uncovered in testing, this is the version. I'm still including reports from 3.18 to present as eligible for the submission.

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-Vaaish

Great! You'll get 3 reports after the weekend!

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Well 1-3 lists depending on how many of the other list are approved i guess...

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

LOL, anything is better than nothing

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-Vaaish

Mordoten,

If you are still planning to do the games this weekend, could you try lists without the CLP if we don't finish deciding on the CLP direction by then? It'll also give a bit of variety to the lists tested. Thanks!

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-Vaaish

Hey leave the Gothic Cruiser alone! I bought the model Ad-Mech Cruiser model to use with the army and would use it in most titan legion games (I've not played them yet but am in the process of putting together and c
converting the models for them).

You could have two spacecraft in the list, the larger with transport, neither with slow and steady - it's like this in the Eldar list.

The cost for the Ark Mechanicus with those abilities is LUDICROUSLY cheap too, it should cost around 225-250 points.

Maybe, maybe not too cheap. We'll have to see how it performs with the Tetrarch in the Cataphractii list and adjust for that list. But outside of that list, the ship doesn't use the transport capacity and neither of them have seen the light of day in a list apart from the one you bought, even at 150 points. With the rest of AdMech on the ground, there's not a whole lot of reason for two space craft in the list.

If you look at the stats for it, it's got +2bp and +1 pinpoint attack over a Lunar cruiser that's pointed at 150 in the Epic rulebook. The Lunar (ok, all spacecraft) is rarely taken last I checked and I don't think I've even heard of the emperor being mentioned once as viable.

The gothic isn't coming back, it's a redundant unit at this point. The good news is you can sell the gothic on ebay for it's weight in gold, or just convert it to an Ark.

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-Vaaish

Tjetes actually no CLP in my tournament list. There usually isn't. But theres lot of GB:s!

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Well that'll give us good idea of how the changes to the gb goes.

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-Vaaish

I think this a really lousy call for you to make as army champion. All the races in epic that have spacecraft get two versions in epic, generally a cruiser and a battleship, it's traditional. The Ork and IG ships don't get taken much but they are included in the list and you should follow precedent and keep it. One cheap ship with guns, one more expensive with more guns and transport

150 points for the Ark is WAY out of line with the pricing of spacecraft in other lists and much too cheap for what is one of the best ships in the game. A similar ship in the DE list – the Torture – has 2 pinpoints, transport and a 6 BP barrage (kills as many but +1 BM), same strategy rating and that costs 300 points.

2 pinpoint attacks is very useful for a TL list to take out threatening superheavies anywhere on the table – Shadowswords, Fortresses with Supa-Zzaps, Cobras, Subjugators, ect. Probably 80-90%+ of lists will have some kind of WE to attack and if they do the craft has a good chance at killing or breaking a couple and making back more than you paid for it, with no way for the enemy to counter it. A two template MW barrage can damage a lot and place the second template touching the first where you choose, so has more chance of hitting enemy formation(s).

To go through some comparisons an Eldar Dragonship pays 300 points to get 2 pinpoint attacks and transport, the Protector pays 200 for 2 pinpoint attacks and transport. A Despoiler has 2 pinpoints, 3BP and transport for 250 and is slow and steady to boot. I really think the Ark needs to be 275-300 in the Cataphracti list and 250 in the TL list where it doesn't transport. It's broken as hell at 150 and I would feel embarrassed taking it for so little.

There is no reason to add a second spacecraft just because everyone else has it. You add units that actually have a use and an IN Gothic with an extra lance takes a back seat to the Ark Mechanicus, which is a ship type that's exclusive to AdMech. Especially when the Cruiser practically has the same weapons outside of the bombardment. Precedent or no, it's not coming back.

Transport isn't even relevant to the Skitarii or AMTL lists. They have no units that can planetfall to take advantage of it. When we work on the Cataphractii list, we'll see if a price boost is in order for the transport capability.

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-Vaaish

But even with no ability to use the transport the Ark as you have statted it is worth around 250, inline with the costs for other spacecraft. 150 is much too cheap.

I think we could do with the feedback from others on this to persuade you to price it at a more sane level. Thoughts people?

You are talking a theoretical proper price point based on other spacecraft that are barely used. When people consider selecting a spacecraft over another support option, then we can discuss if it's worth more than 150 points. So far, both the gothic and Ark have been 150 points since around July of 2011 and I don't know of a single game that's used one. Prior to that the Gothic was 150 points and I've never heard of it being remotely considered for use until you mentioned it.

If they are really that amazing for the price you'd think they'd have shown up a bit more often.

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-Vaaish