Tactical Command
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Poll - the titan list in the
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21467		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  GlynG [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Poll - the titan list in the
Out of curiosity I though it may be helpful to get a show of opinion on the controversial issue of whether the upcoming supplement should the proper ATML 3.19 Titan Legions list or a more restricted and cut down version following the minutiae of the current 40k titan rules.

It has been suggested the supplement could include both lists, with one added briefly at the end but please vote for which you think should be the primary showcased list in the supplement.
Author:  Steve54 [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
Its E&Cs supplement so he decides or are you doing the supplement?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
As the guy putting in half a thousand hours making it, I think I should decide which list gets used in this particular supplement.

I encourage anyone who wants to feature 3.19 in a supplement to write one.
Author:  Moscovian [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
E&C is right. I'm not taking sides on this because I don't know enough about the discussion to warrant a comment. GlynG, I hope you know that I have no ill will toward you. With that said, it doesn't matter what the poll numbers say. Quite frankly the only poll that matters is the one I will conduct as to whether or not you the public are willing to buy it. If those numbers are low, I won't print it. If they are reasonable, I will.

Given the time investment E&C is putting in, you the public are in a win-win situation. You get to preview the whole supplement for free and can even print it off yourself. If you then want a professionally printed copy, you can buy it. That arrangement doesn't exist in too many places in the world so count your blessings.
Author:  Vaaish [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
I don't think the issue is quite that cut and dry. While I applaud you putting in 500 hours on the supplement, time spent doesn't necessarily equal control of content. You've got to look at the end user or client to determine that. If you are making the supplement for your own enjoyment alone then, sure, put what you like in it. If you are wanting to put it out to the rest of us and see good support and return you had better listen to what they want.

In my field I put in countless hours of effort to develop brands and understand their relationship to a target market to better promote products or create products that the audience wants and communicate a clients message. Sure, I can say this is my way take it or leave it but it's not likely to go over well with the client.

Despite that, I don't have an issue with a properly done variant list showing up in the supplement but it definitely needs to feel like you are playing a variant list rather than just a stripped down version of the main list. I think focus on specific weapons configurations rather than restricting weapons locations would be a more effective approach to creating a flavored list but this isn't the correct thread for that discussion.
Author:  Moscovian [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
Nobody (and I mean NOBODY) has argued with E&C more than I have (We were lobbing bombs at each other across the Atlantic while working on the Raiders book) so I think that I have earned some flexibility here.

E&C knows what is at stake when it comes to putting out a supplement. He has worked on two of them. It is like putting out an army list idea, except it is a massively larger commitment of time and there is always somebody unhappy with it. E&C knows that he needs to get input from the community, but this poll is not going to help. I think just some gentle prodding combined with playtests (of either Titan list) will go a lot farther than banging him over the head.

I predict this supplement will not come out on time (they never do). So everyone who is displeased with the list(s) has plenty of time to gently nudge the process with thoughtful discussion and friendly discourse.
Author:  Flogus [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
I'm not pro or con the "Legio Destructor" army list.
I like things (differenciated weapon mounts). I dislike others (dropping some not-yet-FW-produced-titan-weapons).

As Evil & Chaos tells he won't drop the support of the "War Gryphoons" army list, everything is fine to me.
Author:  Ulrik [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
This is not a paid work. It's volunteer work, a labor of love. Time spent most definetly comes into who gets to make the decisions.

Push too hard and you risk there being no supplement at all.
Author:  Onyx [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
GlynG wrote:
please vote for which you think should be the primary showcased list in the supplement.

I think that most of the replies are ignoring this part of the poll.

E&C (and anyone prepared to put in the time) can of course do what he wants with his supplement.

As I see it, this poll was basically asking what we would like to see in a Titan supplement not whether we should usurp E&C's supplement. Speaking from a personal point of view, I can't see us using the Legio Destructor list in our tournaments and campaigns. The list does not allow all the cool toys local players would like to use (and have used in 2 campaigns and tournaments without dominating either).

I believe quite a few have voted on the wrong premise going by previous polls on what we (the players) want from a Titan Legion list.

The facts are:
E&C has always wanted the Titan list to be as depicted in the Legio Destructor list (to follow 40K fluff).
This is not wrong at all.
It is at odds with what the players have voted for in the past.
This is E&C's supplement and he can do with it as he pleases.

There is no right or wrong here. It's a matter of perspective.

I've had my say and I I'll let it go now. I don't want to rock the boat any further and I apologise if I've made anyone hot under the collar about this (not my intent).
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
It's a varient list, isn't that how EA is meant to work?

Instead of being sad that it does not inclue older stuff, people need to make the sister varient list that uses the older stuff (eg legio getoffmylawn where all titans must use harpoons or w/e) then everyone is happy.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
stick the amtl in the back anyway - just for completeness sakes.

it's only an extra few pages, and having a ruleBOOK is just such a nice feeling, no matter the army variant.

EDIT: unless the amtl list is still undergoing tweaking - a printed list that's out of date in a few months is worse then no list at all.
Author:  Onyx [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
Apocolocyntosis wrote:
It's a varient list, isn't that how EA is meant to work?

Instead of being sad that it does not inclue older stuff, people need to make the sister varient list that uses the older stuff (eg legio getoffmylawn where all titans must use harpoons or w/e) then everyone is happy.

Just to clarify this - Legio Destructor isn't really a variant list. It's the War Gryphonnes list with several ommisions.
Variant lists usually bring something new to the original list to help differentiate them.

Oh, and I don't believe anyone wants Harpoon missiles back in any Titan list... :D
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
Onyx wrote:
Oh, and I don't believe anyone wants Harpoon missiles back in any Titan list... :D

I demand a gargantuan squigoth hunt game where harpoon titans ride land trains around a crumbling city attempting to snare huge ork-dinos, whilst the titans are themselves hunted by members of a squigoth-rites eldar titan clan. Mandatory bugles.

Fair point on varient, i was seeing it as a legion specific list with restrictions to match, but all depends on intent and i didn't actually read the 5 page thread, so probably shouldn't be commenting ;) :D
Author:  Koshi [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
War Gryphoons FTW! Option 1 selected.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Poll - the titan list in the
I should note whoever set the poll up needs to have the explanation of unbiased wording re-explained to them.
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