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warhound weapon loads
ragnarok
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:06 pm 
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I have been thinking about the weapon options for the Warhounds, admists all the talk about mono and non mono weapon loads.


I have come to the conclusion that mono weapon loads are more popular since they help the warhound get its points back quickly. ?Since they are amongst the weakest units in the army they will be targeted first and need to be focused. ?A mixed weapons load loses focus.

Now onto the different weapon loads

Dual Turbo lasers
This configuration costs an extra 50pts but has the most potential.

Allowing a strike upto 90cm away from its starting position, or even 120cm if you double. ?The long range makes it useful to rapidly move forwards and try to cripple mechanised formations before they can bring their massed infantry to bare.

They can also use their turbo lasers to great effect against enemy infantry, even though they only hit on 5+. ?Move forwards so only three of four enemy stands are just within range and kill them. ?The remaining infantry wont be broken, but will need to double to get within range (since most infantry only have 45cm range and 5cm move).

Dual plasma blast gun
A very good alpha strike machine doubling it can reach 105cm with 4 MW3+ shots, very capable for hunting any death strikes that are out of range of any support titans.

I don?t think it will be able to make back its points, but it isn?t suppose to.  It is designed to hunt down anything capable of hurting its big brothers.

Dual Vulcan mega bolter
The daisy cutter.  Very good at taking out massed infantry, but not much else (8 AT5+ can do something to tanks but don?t count on it).  However most armies (apart from AMTL and minervan) will normally have a fair bit of infantry to chew upon.

It is unlikely to kill its points in infantry (they are too cheap to kill enough in 4 turns), but it can break them and force them away from objectives.

Dual inferno gun
Very specialised at taking on infantry in cover, but that is okay because infantry usually hide in cover.  A very good if short ranged weapon its specialisation does mean it is weakened against tanks, but as a scout it shouldn?t be going up against them in the first place.

Turbo laser and plasma blast gun
This configuration costs an extra 25pts

It doesn?t have the same long range firepower as the first type but has the MW shots incase it comes up against something with RA. ?It suffers from the fact that it has two different weapon ranges, so it isn?t using its turbo lasers optimally

Turbo laser and Vulcan mega bolter
This configuration costs an extra 25pts

This is a right mixed bag. ?It has no specific role, but this could be a blessing. ?It is very good against mechanised formations able to target both the transports and troops equally (well unless the troops are hiding behind them). ?This is a mix I would like to try out. ?Though like all mixes with turbo lasers the lasers are being used sub optimally.

Turbo laser and inferno gun
This configuration costs an extra 25pts

I have no idea what to do with this configuration ?Long range anti tank and very short range garrison clearance. ?A really bad mix

Plasma blast gun and Vulcan mega bolter
The standard configuration.

I like it. ?It doesn?t do anything that well, but it is still capable of hunting down flanking units or small artillery batteries.

Plasma blast gun and inferno gun

Another really mixed weapons load. ?The inferno gun to burn out light infantry and a plasma blast gun to.... something.

Vulcan mega bolter and inferno gun
Again another infantry kill, the inferno gun loses its ignore cover when shooting at enemy in the open, but this is balanced by it ignoring cover when shooting into cover, mitigating the effect on the titans overall shooting into cover.

Conclusion: ?Overall mono weapon loads are more effective tank two different weapons. ?The only exceptions in my belief are dual plasma blast guns, which are slightly sub par and turbo laser and Vulcan mega bolter which looks vbetter than the dual plasma.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:57 pm 
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I'm going to sticky this thread.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:20 pm 
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May I humbly suggest E&C that you have a master sticky and not quite so many sticky threads? :)

As to the analysis I think your concluesion on the dual plasma contradicts your text. Yes its a suicide hound config, but by taking out the deathstrikes or similar goes to the cult in the sky happily! I dont expect them to live past the first turn, unless they get lucky and break and get to run away.

Incidentally the dual fit dominates on single hounds after a few games (for min maxers) while, hence past lists limiting mono fits to hound packs and making single hounds mixed.

Also something to consider is the synergy in the list. The 'Hound pack is the cheapest way to field the Turbolaser - 4 for 600. Course this has other problems like activations and toughness, but if you can get it to work it free up points elsewhere.

You might also want to edit your post putting the mono fits together for comparative purposes.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:37 pm 
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May I humbly suggest E&C that you have a master sticky and not quite so many sticky threads? :)


That's a good idea.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:38 pm 
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Layout formated TRC.

My conclusion isn?t off about the plasma hound compared to the text.  The plasma hound is very good for one very specific task, hunting down weakly armoured TK weapons, or possible small artillery formation (heck you could get luck and break an artillery formation).

However it doesn?t have much use beyond that.  I would rank the turbo laser and VMB load above it (possible even above the dual inferno gun).

For me the ranking goes something like:

1: Dual turbo lasers
2: Dual Vulcan mega bolters
3: Vulcan mega bolter and turbo laser
4: Dual Inferno guns
5: Dual plasma blast gun
Then all other mixtures with the last two turbo laser options at the very bottom.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:00 pm 
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A very good overview of weapon options although I would rank dual Plasma above dual Inferno due to the range of the Inferno.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:06 pm 
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They are almost equal in my books.  Dual inferno just wins because they have the potential to kill more.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:07 pm 
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A couple of potential loads for Packs...

3 TLD/1Plasma tank- or WE-hunters - almost as good as 4 TLD, with an extra punch of MW for alpha striking shielded units

3 Inferno/1VMB Infantry killers - Max out 3 IC templates, with the extra slot as VMB becauuse the 4th Inferno doesn't give much advantage.

===

Rag:  I think you're selling the dual plasma short.  There aren't many durable assault formations in the AMTL army.  The titans need to shoot and/or double move in order to do damage or take objectives.  They rarely have time to "waste" on assaults.  The Plasmahound can assault in the off turns to draw in some of that spiffy titan support.  Even if the enemy takes it down first turn because it was overextended (and it's a threat), it will soak a fair amount of firepower and keep the enemy from out-maneuvering the slower main body of the AMTL army.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:59 pm 
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Nealhunt: I just don'ttrust it on a warhound.  4 shots on something between 2+ and 4+ compared to 8 shots between 3+ and 5+ (or 5+ and 7+) just doesn't feel that good.  Plus i don't like them in assault, unless they are supporting, being supported by a Reaver/ warlord, which means they are not using their movement effectively.

I am planning on getting 8 more hound to try out all of the combos so I might be swayed.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:24 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Apr. 14 2008,07:06)
QUOTE
Turbo laser and Vulcan mega bolter
This configuration costs an extra 25pts

This is a right mixed bag.  It has no specific role, but this could be a blessing.  It is very good against mechanised formations able to target both the transports and troops equally (well unless the troops are hiding behind them).  This is a mix I would like to try out.  Though like all mixes with turbo lasers the lasers are being used sub optimally.

I usually use this combination against Dave's Tyranids. When I get a chance to sustain the Warhounds, they can shred a formation.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:11 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Apr. 14 2008,16:59)
QUOTE
Nealhunt: I just don't trust it on a warhound.  4 shots on something between 2+ and 4+ compared to 8 shots between 3+ and 5+ (or 5+ and 7+) just doesn't feel that good.

The TLD is better overall.  No question.  If it was a straight trade, you'd have to be a fool to take the Plasma.  That's why a Warhound with 2x costs almost 20% more.

Based on point cost, the comparison is more like 3 shots to 5.  Against decent armor save and with -1 to -2 to-hit, 3 Plasma shots gets almost twice as many kills as 5xAT3+ which, with its better flexibility, is about right.

Don't get me wrong.  The Plasmahound is a one-trick pony and possibly a sacrificial lamb (to combine animal metaphors...).  I just think it's a reasonably important trick and a worthwhile risk.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:39 pm 
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(Rug @ Apr. 14 2008,19:48)
QUOTE
I like the Inferno cannon turbo laser combo as its excellent vs. mech inf. Its not bad vs light vehicles or vehicles in cover either.

Turbolaser is good vs. the transports. A couple of stands of inf. are always hugging the transport for cover which makes an excelent target for the inferno cannon. I also find barage is always handy vs high DC WE too.

A very good point... even the nonsense configuration has a commonly found ideal target.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: warhound weapon loads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:45 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 14 2008,20:39)
QUOTE
A very good point... even the nonsense configuration has a commonly found ideal target.

However you are trading 50% of the turbo lasers range for tis combo.  A range that you are paying for but not using.

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