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Separate Lists?
Pariah Press
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:25 am 
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(Grimshawl @ Dec. 23 2006,04:51)
QUOTE
Knights almost never take the fieled solely by themselves unless their home knight world is being attacked,

A lot of those Knight Worlds are "shared" with Eldar Exodites.  Oftentimes the humans and the eldar are constantly at war with eachother.  It would make good sense to field a pure Knight force (with associated infantry and cavalry) against Exodites, in my opinion.  Aren't the Siegemasters basically a PDF list?  Why shouldn't Knight worlds get the same thing?

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:25 am 
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Although fluff doesn't mention anything about fielding an all-Knight army, I don't see any reason not to create an army list with Knights as the core units.

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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:22 pm 
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I am not completely aguanst it, I'm simply weighing in on the type 1 or type 2 view point.

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Xisor
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:14 pm 
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Hey folks,

Though I'm not very much involved in the AMTL work, what I have noted on the stuff so far is that (IMO) the reason the current list is so unbalanceable is that it is *too* dilute.

So that makes me faction 2.

As I see it, there's a good opportunity here:

Titan Legions

Titan forces where everything that is not a Titan comes under a single 1/3 allies section (inc Ordinatus, Tech Guard, Knights, Air Force etc).

Knights

I too favour the 'mounted' approach. It'd be a heavy force, no doubt about it, but not too heavy, and would ideally suffer from an almost complete inability to become a very effective 'popcorn' army.

Like the TL, the Knights would also 'suffer' from having everything non-Knight in the 1/3 Allies part of the list...simply to keep it restricted enough to be balanceable *and* thematically appropriate.

Tech Guard & Ordinatus

Simple again! The Ad Mech army. Tech Guard (Rhinos or Chimeras?), Praetorians, Ordinatus Platforms, Excellent Technology, Super Heavy Tanks and Tanks (Hyspapists IIRC) all the other fun stuff.

Like most lists, however, Titans, Aircraft, Knights and such-like still remain in the 1/3.

Additionally, it is possible to expand into new Ordinatus stuff. Y'know...lots of Tech Relics, lots of superheavy mega-weapons of the Imperiums. Restrict them, of course, but add some new stuff.

That is all..

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Mechanicus
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:56 pm 
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Simple again! The Ad Mech army. Tech Guard (Rhinos or Chimeras?), Praetorians, Ordinatus Platforms, Excellent Technology, Super Heavy Tanks and Tanks (Hyspapists IIRC) all the other fun stuff.


Well, the four types of Skitarii (Five, including the elite Praetorians) are Hypaspists (normal troops, armed with lasguns/hellguns), Sagitari (Heavy weapons experts), Cataphracts (Tank crews) and Ballisterai (artillerists), according to CJ21. I think they'd use Chimeras, but I could be wrong.

I'm also faction 2, and I'll echo Xisor's suggestions, since they reflect my opinions on the matter.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:03 pm 
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Yes, I remember that list in CJ21; just checked, they use Chimeras.  We use a modified hybrid SM2/CJ21 list ... And all our IG/Tech Grd/Skatari use both Rhinos and Chimeras ...  The CJ21 list includes Robots too. We have 'bots with our SMs, IG/TG/Skt and Squats - What's SCi-fi without Robots ! :D

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:29 am 
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(Xisor @ Dec. 26 2006,13:14)
QUOTE
Hey folks,

Though I'm not very much involved in the AMTL work, what I have noted on the stuff so far is that (IMO) the reason the current list is so unbalanceable is that it is *too* dilute.

So that makes me faction 2.

As I see it, there's a good opportunity here:

Titan Legions

Titan forces where everything that is not a Titan comes under a single 1/3 allies section (inc Ordinatus, Tech Guard, Knights, Air Force etc).

Knights

I too favour the 'mounted' approach. It'd be a heavy force, no doubt about it, but not too heavy, and would ideally suffer from an almost complete inability to become a very effective 'popcorn' army.

Like the TL, the Knights would also 'suffer' from having everything non-Knight in the 1/3 Allies part of the list...simply to keep it restricted enough to be balanceable *and* thematically appropriate.

Tech Guard & Ordinatus

Simple again! The Ad Mech army. Tech Guard (Rhinos or Chimeras?), Praetorians, Ordinatus Platforms, Excellent Technology, Super Heavy Tanks and Tanks (Hyspapists IIRC) all the other fun stuff.

Like most lists, however, Titans, Aircraft, Knights and such-like still remain in the 1/3.

Additionally, it is possible to expand into new Ordinatus stuff. Y'know...lots of Tech Relics, lots of superheavy mega-weapons of the Imperiums. Restrict them, of course, but add some new stuff.

That is all..

I like this idea.  1/3 allies from other branches of the AdMech.  Specialized, but with a dash of spice.

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Mechanicus
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:33 am 
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Yes, I remember that list in CJ21; just checked, they use Chimeras. ?We use a modified hybrid SM2/CJ21 list ... And all our IG/Tech Grd/Skatari use both Rhinos and Chimeras ... ?The CJ21 list includes Robots too. We have 'bots with our SMs, IG/TG/Skt and Squats - What's SCi-fi without Robots ! :D

Not to mention the newer ranks that have been introduced - Captains, Colonel-Priests, Lieutenants, Tribunes (One of your creations, I believe), Magos commander.

By the way, can someone explain to me more about Tribunes, because they're supposed to be equal to a Guard Lieutenant, but there's a Skitarii Lieutenant already mentioned by GW... I suppose a Lieutenant could still have the duty of a lieutenant for a Tribune, instead of a Captain, but I'd value your input...

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:40 am 
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Well, I had nothing to do with the "official List", but according to CJ21, Skatarii and Tech Guard are the same thing ... So the ranks should generally be the same ... regardless. But I don't know what the current list says ... :)

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Chrome
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:38 pm 
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Shouldn't skitarii stats be like stormtroopers? they should outperform basic guardsman with their augmentation.
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Legion 4
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:18 pm 
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Based on CJ21, "Known by the uncouth and uninitaited as the Tech Guard, the Skitarii ..." - Gav Thorpe ...  According to the stats, based on E40K, the Skitarii infantry (Hypaspist) have an Armor 3+ ... Firepower and Assault both = 1  ... The Sagitarii are Hvy Wpns and Praetorians are the bio/bionic enhanced troopers.  With alloy reinforced skeletons, implants, etc. ... they have Assault and Stubborn ratings (E40K) ...  So that may be help or be old news ... :D

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Mechanicus
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:28 pm 
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Just to clarify, but Gav Thorpe has said on a GW forum that:
In the original article, the Praetorians were super-tech guard. Later development by other members of the team placed much greater emphasis on combat servitors in the armies of the Ad Mech, and Praetorians were shifted to be bad-ass combat servitors. I see neither as being mutually exclusive. The term Prateorian is applied by the Adeptus Mechanicus to any fighting unit, or member of a fighting unit, that is a step above the ordinary Skitarii, whether it be a super combat servitor, or highly trained tech guard.
Link here.

I'd agree with pretty much everything else though. :D

And so the ranks would be something like (from lower to higher):
Hypaspist
Sagitarius
Cataphractarius
Ballisteraus
Praetorian
(Lieutenant?)
Tribune
Captain
Colonel-Priest --- Magos (Militaris? Mandati?)

With the Colonel-Priest being in overall command, and maybe the Magos being a sort of spiritual advisor?




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Legion 4
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:18 pm 
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Yes, that makes sense and G/W always, "adjusts" their fluff ... ?As far as troop ranks, not sure what your referencing, so I may be way off. ?But A Cataphactarius are Tankers, Ballistarius = Artillery, Sagitarius = Hvy Wpns Infantry, Pretorians = Hvy Asslt Infantry, ? ? ?and Hypaspist, regular line infantry. ?Those are branches or Military Occupation Specialities. ?That means what his job is, what he does not his rank. ?As for rank, based on my past in Epic, history and Real Life; Lieutenant (LT), Captain (CPT), Tribune, Colonel (COL) - priest. ?Magos would equal a Chaplin or Commissar ... ?That's my take on it ... The fluff may say otherwise ?! ?:;):




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Mechanicus
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:59 pm 
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Yes, that makes sense and G/W always, "adjusts" their fluff ... ?As far as troop ranks, not sure what your referencing, so I may be way off. ?But A Cataphactarius are Tankers, Ballistarius = Artillery, Sagitarius = Hvy Wpns Infantry, Pretorians = Hvy Asslt Infantry, ? ? ?and Hypaspist, regular line infantry. ?Those are branches or Military Occupation Specialities. ?That means what his job is, what he does not his rank. ?As for rank, based on my past in Epic, history and Real Life; Lieutenant (LT), Captain (CPT), Tribune, Colonel (COL) - priest. ?Magos would equal a Chaplin or Commissar ... ?That's my take on it ... The fluff may say otherwise ?!

You put Tribune above Captain - any particular reason? It says they "command a Century", which should be a hundred men, so perhaps a company equivalent (?), but Captains are usually company commanders... :confuse: Everything else is what I'd expect. :)

The background hasn't gone into Skitarii much besides this, AFAIK! :D




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Chrome
 Post subject: Separate Lists?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:33 pm 
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Here is one link that I found.

http://www.answers.com/topic/adeptus-mechanicus
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