I was under the impression you had to allocate and pass regular saves prior to allocating macro?

_________________
Epic hobby blog
http://fuddshobby.blogspot.com.au/
https://www.facebook.com/FuddsEpicHobby/

Yes, but roll to hit is done before any saves so with the MW shots you are either shooting taking into account cover or only hitting units out of cover.

Thanks again Fudd! The comments are quite interesting. Are you the designated poster for the CANCON AMTL or will the other two lists pop in as well?

_________________
-Vaaish

Sorry, missed this. I'm hoping to release an update for the list here soon that will swap out the sentinels and reduce the shots on the PD. We may add the carapace restriction once I hear more from the CANCON folks.

_________________
-Vaaish

To what extent would dropping the PD's range help? Turtling sounds like one of the biggest problems with it, and long-ranged plasma doesn't feel very fluffy anyway.

Hey guys

I only had to go up against 1 titan list during Cancon, and it was this one:

Player 3

1. Reaver 825
+ Legate & Carapace ML
2 x Quake Cannons & Carapace Landing Pad

2. Reaver 800
+ Vet Princeps
2 x Plasma Destructors & Laser Blaster

3. Reaver 800
+ Vet Princeps & Carapace ML
2 x Volcano Cannons & Laser Blaster

4. Warhound Titan 275
Vulcan Megabolter & Plasma Blast Gun

5. Recon Cohort 100

6. Recon Cohort 100

7. Recon Cohort 100


I was playing as Knights with this list:

1. Knight Household 680
2 Knight Errant, 3 Knight Paladin, Baron

2. Knight Household 415
4 Knight Errant, Seneschal

3. Knight Household 415
4 Knight Paladin, Seneschal

4. Custodian Household 350
Knight Castellan, 2 Knight Crusader

5. Lancer Household 415
4 Knight Lancer, Seneschal

6. Warden Household 275
3 Warden (2 with AA Missiles, 1 with Vanquisher)

7. Rough Rider Pl 150
6 Rough Riders

8. Rough Rider Pl 150
6 Rough Riders
9. Thunderbolt Sqn 150



I had been watching and talking to others through the tourney on what tactics this player was using all weekend, which was to castle up in a corner all game, sustaining and destroying units every turn, and running out on the 3rd to grab objectives.
I was lucky in getting a table with copious amounts of terrain that blocked his line of sight though that forced him to come out of his corner. I concentrated on destroying his Sentinels and reducing his activations while giving him sacrificial formation for him to attack and destroy (Like my wardens) while i outmaneuver and prepped for engages.

I ended up winning this game fairly convincingly through outmaneuvering, throwing broken unit in his face that he would have to either waste activations destroying or had to spend time walking around. I destroyed the warhound through a Lancer assault, destroyed the 2xPD Reaver through a huge multi supported engagement and broke the BTS Reaver.

I believe i only fared as well as I did because of the table we were randomly assigned that forced him to come out of the castle early on.
Although this game was a win for me, Castleing games are simply no fun to play against, plus the multi PD on reavers are far to strong. I support the limit to Carapace only.

Ah, sorry mate, i think i misread you initial post. Yeah i understand that. Unfortunately i was only telling a recount on what i was told by another player on the weekend in your typical end of round "how'd your game go" chats.

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http://fuddshobby.blogspot.com.au/
https://www.facebook.com/FuddsEpicHobby/

Thanks for taking the time to do the write ups fudd and mard.

Personally I think the PDs are a little over the top in their current iteration. And even 1 is devastating.

I think the lists we saw at cancon were generally balanced lists. Not "optimized" (read loaded with plasma cheesyness) but well balanced with a good appreciation for activation count and a solid handle on the requirement to achieve a at/ap weapon loadout mix.

Sam ran a very bold load out with the close combat reaver which, i fear will now feature regularly in the games between cal451 and I... The army itself takes skill and appreciation to wield, but is still open to exploitation by those who seek a darker purpose.

I love playing against amtl and call 451 and I have had some stellar games with guard and eldar versus amtl. The diversity and customisation is unmatched and fantastic.

I'm less concerned about the artillery killer that shadowlord had discussed but I'm sure some limiting in what weapons/ordnance individual titans can carry, without restricting the overall diversity of the list could be achieved.

Just with regard to the titan castle. I don't see an issue with that tactic. Guard do it and so do eldar to an extent. ( they look like they are moving but they ain't)! Standing back pummeling is what amtl and guard can do better than anyone - and so they should. I know the reaver castle cake is a hard nut to crack, but it is certainly doable. But I certainly get your point about not so fun to play. But beautifully challenging. I love the way you were able to dislocate your opponent mard through a bit of demonstration and bluster backed up by a tk dealing death Knight!!!

Great write up gents and great games.
Cheers
Jim

Thanks guys, I'm planning to put out an update to the AMTL list by mid February and I'll take all of this into consideration.

Anyone else have feedback?

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-Vaaish

It's been a little over a week without any further discussion. Based on what I'm hearing we'll include carapace only for the PD in the update. I don't think it will hurt the list and it'll help reduce the numbers of PD coming from one reaver where it seems most problematic and it'll make it more difficult for a unit to sustain with the PD on a fixed forward arc. For the coming update here's what's changing:

PD: Becomes Carapace Only and is reduced to 5x shots.
Sentinels: Removed
Crusaders: Added. 4 units for 150 points

_________________
-Vaaish

Great changes!

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Could i possibly get some info on how the crusaders will work & operate?

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Epic hobby blog
http://fuddshobby.blogspot.com.au/
https://www.facebook.com/FuddsEpicHobby/

They are in the Skitarii army list.

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Crusaders function mostly like sentinels in that they provide scout screens and each formation is 4 units. The difference is they have more teeth than sentinels and they don't evaporate quite as fast once broken. However, they cost 50 points more than sentinels do.

Specifically, here's the stats:
Crusader Robot
Type, Speed, Armor, CC, FF
lv, 25cm, 6+, 4+, 6+

Weapons:
Multi-Melta 15cm, mw5+ and Small Arms, Macro-Weapon
Heavy Bolter 30cm, AP5+
Power Weapons, Base Contact, Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (1)

Notes:
Walker, Scout, Automaton


And the Automaton SR:
All formations composed entirely of automaton units will not collect blast markers for casualties to the formation or for crossfire bonuses, but will collect blast markers for coming under fire and disrupt attacks.
A formation composed entirely of automaton units will not automatically take damage inflicted by blast markers when broken; a unit that is allocated a hit in this way may attempt to save it normally.

_________________
-Vaaish