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Winged tyrants |
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Winged tyrants  Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:48 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
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I've been thinking lately (Yeah I know, thinking is above my station as a ripper  ) and some of those thoughts have been about winged tyrants.
What to use as wings,
how to convert an existing tyrant to habe wings and only 6 limbs,
How much they can drink before they pass out or need a kebaab
why in the name of heck would I use one
It was the last thought that got me thinking even more. Why would I take a 100pt 5+ amrour synpase creature. It is slowed down by any armoured units it takes to use as ablative armour. And all synpase try to take ablative armour.
The only reason to take one would be to up the speed of a bio blitz brigade by 5cm, giving the Tyrant 5cm extra move to shuffle its place in the formation.
Yet with only 5+ armour I would be so careful with it that the swarm wouln't go anyway near difficult terrian and it would hide come an engagement and use its FF  .
However I'm confused as to why it takes such a hammering in the save department. It goes from 3+ to 5+, a drop of 50%. Yet in 40K it suffers no such problems. Its only restriction is that it can't up its save though extened carapace, but it can still take warp field and get the same 2+ save and a 6+ invulnable save.
I want to take a winged tyrant (not just to add pretigee to my Avian-force) but I can't see any reason to convert one of my 2 tyrants (well 5 if you include the Malanthropes) just to help my enemy get closer to BTS.
Now winged warriors is something I'm willing to make even with a 50% armour reduction and a lacking in minitures.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Winged tyrants Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 12:16 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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I'd say 'because it'd be good to lead gargoyles with'... But that doesn't really seem to be the case. It's slower then either the harridan or the Vituperaptor... The only reason I can think of is to let it take Gargoyles to go with it, and still only slow them down by 5 move-speed... It might be entertaining to see, but not very practical. Harridans seem the better choice. I think it was mostly included as a 'completeness' issue. Tyranids can, and do, use such creatures. So it needs to be represented in the army obviously. Frankly it really baffles me too. It also baffles me why Hive Tyrants can have wings but Tyranid Warriors can't, given that in the fluff both units can do so.
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Winged tyrants Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:40 am |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England
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I would never have a trant lead gargoyles the other two fliers have DC and RA to absord in coming fire and the ability to regenerate. The tyrant has none of these and can still be picked out of a gargoyle swarm by AT fire.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Winged tyrants Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:35 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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I did a conversion just a couple days ago. I conveniently ignored the 6-limb concept.
I don't recall which model the wings bit originally came from as I purchased 10 of them years ago for a conversion project that never happened and the source is long forgotten They are from a 40K/WFB model, but would probably be a bit small for that size. They look great on the Tyrant (I use the smaller Tyrant models).
I cut the bulk of the armored ridges off the back of the Tyrant, leaving them near the tail and on the shoulders. I filed the wings and the back fo the tyrant down to give a smooth fit with lots of surface area and just glued it in place without pinning.
Overall, I agree with the effectiveness argument. I had assumed it would be simply a -1 to armor, like the Daemon Prince option in the BL list. I was surprised to see it drop to 5+.
As far as tactical use, the extra speed could allow a Tyrant to use its CC more often, especially compared to a swarm where the Haruspexes had nearly outrun the slower Tyrant.
And, of course, the reverse question is, if Tyrants could have wings for only a -1 armor, who wouldn't take them like that all the time? The only use I could see for them in that case would be to garrison with a load of Carnifexes, so you are again relegating one version to solely a specialty use.
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Winged tyrants Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:42 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Something I have been thinking on, after drooling over the FW 40K winged tyrants, is that the winges replace one of the weapons, so you either lose the venom cannon or the MW attacks.
Failing that they could be given a price, I don't know maybe +20pts.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Winged tyrants Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:47 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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As far as becoming 5+ instead of 4+ this is supposed to represent two things, I think. First is they have no Tyrant Guards when they're winged (Guards can't fly, and have no winged upgrades in the normal books). One possibility is perhaps to have two different versions of the Tyrant? 100 point ground-based and 125 point winged tyrant with 4+ save. Not sure that'd eliviate it much. But it'd mean that fielding winged tyrants would cost you something. Over-all I'm not entirely sure what good the Tyrants in general are most of the time. Usually I'd rather take Tyranid Warriors to lead my broods, since all the common brood creatures are currently Infantry. I could see using them to lead Carnifexes or Heirodules into battle. But I'd rather have a Dominatrix to lead my Heirodules. She's vastly harder to kill, and is guaranteed to be able to bring back at least one if she spawns. She costs 5x as much, yes, but she gives you something more then 5x as hard to kill, with nearly twice the effective regen of creatures around her, regeneration, higher move-speed AND better weapons. I understand at one point the Raveners were Light Vehicles, anyone know why that changed? If they remained Light Vehicles you could use them to screen the Tyrant as well as the Tyranid Warriors.
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Winged tyrants Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:59 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England
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Our beloved Tyrants don't have Tyrant guard anymore. They were dropped in V5 I think. Something about not being evovled yet, like the barbed Heirdoule.
Tyrants do have a use leading carnie spoiler assaults. Garrison a tyrant and a dozen carnies on the centre line and watch your oppoent panic.  Also taking multiply tyrants instead of a single dominatrix gives the swarm more flexability.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Winged tyrants Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 3:10 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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I thought their Tyrant Guards were worked into the 3+ armor save on them? I did see that they lost their Tyrant Guard attack, which is fine with me. But I was under the impression that their high armor-save was representative of said guard. Much like how Tau Crisis Suits assume they have drones with them...
It sounds to me like the land-bound Tyrant is already regailed to more or less the same position one would expect it would be in if they improved the air-based one... Ah well. I love Hive Tyrants, myself, especially the way they look. I just wish there was a more feasable way to field them in the game then screen them with Carnifexes. Then again, the Godzilla army has always been one of my favorites too
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