Page 1 of 2

[ 18 posts ]

Go to page 1, 2  Next

[Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List.
Chroma	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:17 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Reading (and experiencing) some of the confusion over how many attacks and what special abilites those attacks have for the various Tyranid creatures has prompted my to write a proposed list of weapons for Tyranid close combat options. As follows: Scything Talons (Base Contact) Assault Weapons This is the basic Tyranid close combat weapon, any creature that doesn't have a special CC weapon can have this listed in their stats, e.g., Hormagaunts. Rending Claws (Base Contact) Assault Weapons, Extra attacks (+1) This is the basic +1 Attack weapon, no other special abilities, e.g., Genestealers. ?I believe the Haruspex should probably get this as well. Monstrous Claws (Base Contact) Assault weapons, Macro-weapon, Extra attacks (+1) This is the "power weapon" of the Tyranid list given to Warriors, Hive Tyrants, and Carnifex, etc. Gargantuan Claws (Base Contact) Assault Weapons, Titan Killer, Extra attacks (+2) These are the heavy hitters! ?You'll notice that all creatures currently with "Gargantuan Claws" have them in multiples of 2, by turning them into a weapon that gives +2 attacks, this clears up a lot of the confusion about "multiple" close combat weapons and solidifies the intent that these creatures get a large number of special attacks. As well, with all the "claws" weapons, when necessary for multiple instances of them, such as on the Dominatrix or Hierophant can have them designated as "Primary" and "Secondary" Gargantuan Claws, or "Right" and "Left", or "Upper" and "Lower", this clears up all confusion as to how many attacks a creature has and allows for multiple "installations" of the same weapon on the same creature. Bio-plasma Attack (Base Contact) Assault Weapons, Firststrike The bio-plasma attack, as it now stands, is just window-dressing. ?To make it a distinct weapon I offer the proposed stats above. ?This would make the single "base" attack of any creature with it a firststrike attack. ?Currently only the Gargoyles and Carnifex have this weapon listed. ?Not making it simply Extra Attacks (+1) makes it different from Rending Claws and adds a neat weapon to the Tyranid arsenal. Weapons that don't "do anything" for the creature can be removed from their profiles, cleaning up the list and making it easier to read as well. So, what does the Hive Mind think? _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top

ragnarok	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:06 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England	I like it except the part about Gargantuan Claws.  Under the current critical hit  table the bio titan loses a Gargantuan claw and the single TK(1) attack it gives.  Under these suggestions the bio titan loses 2 TK(1) attacks.  WAY too much.  Possible keep it at TK(1) andcall them fore-limb right. mid-limb left ect _________________ Tyranid air marshal
Top

Chroma	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:18 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Quote (ragnarok @ 07 Nov. 2005 (14:06)) I like it except the part about Gargantuan Claws. ?Under the current critical hit ?table the bio titan loses a Gargantuan claw and the single TK(1) attack it gives. ?Under these suggestions the bio titan loses 2 TK(1) attacks. ?WAY too much. ?Possible keep it at TK(1) andcall them fore-limb right. mid-limb left ect Well, the critical can simply be re-written as "Loses one of the attacks from its Gargantuan Claws" and that covers it and then there doesn't have to be 4 lines of "Left, right, upper, and lower" for the Claws.  :)  I just set up that Extra Attacks (+2) because all the creatures with them had attacks that were multiples of two. As to the firststrike on Bio-Plasma Attack, well, it's 6+ for the Gargoyles, who, in my opinion, need a boost.  For the Carnifex, maybe it isn't even needed, as it's not a "standard" bio-morph for them anymore. _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top

Markconz	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:57 am
Purestrain Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm Posts: 7925 Location: New Zealand	Quote (Chroma @ 07 Nov. 2005 (12:17)) Reading (and experiencing) some of the confusion over how many attacks and what special abilites those attacks have for the various Tyranid creatures has prompted my to write a proposed list of weapons for Tyranid close combat options. As follows: Scything Talons (Base Contact) Assault Weapons This is the basic Tyranid close combat weapon, any creature that doesn't have a special CC weapon can have this listed in their stats, e.g., Hormagaunts. Rending Claws (Base Contact) Assault Weapons, Extra attacks (+1) This is the basic +1 Attack weapon, no other special abilities, e.g., Genestealers. ?I believe the Haruspex should probably get this as well. Monstrous Claws (Base Contact) Assault weapons, Macro-weapon, Extra attacks (+1) This is the "power weapon" of the Tyranid list given to Warriors, Hive Tyrants, and Carnifex, etc. Gargantuan Claws (Base Contact) Assault Weapons, Titan Killer, Extra attacks (+2) These are the heavy hitters! ?You'll notice that all creatures currently with "Gargantuan Claws" have them in multiples of 2, by turning them into a weapon that gives +2 attacks, this clears up a lot of the confusion about "multiple" close combat weapons and solidifies the intent that these creatures get a large number of special attacks. As well, with all the "claws" weapons, when necessary for multiple instances of them, such as on the Dominatrix or Hierophant can have them designated as "Primary" and "Secondary" Gargantuan Claws, or "Right" and "Left", or "Upper" and "Lower", this clears up all confusion as to how many attacks a creature has and allows for multiple "installations" of the same weapon on the same creature. Bio-plasma Attack (Base Contact) Assault Weapons, Firststrike The bio-plasma attack, as it now stands, is just window-dressing. ?To make it a distinct weapon I offer the proposed stats above. ?This would make the single "base" attack of any creature with it a firststrike attack. ?Currently only the Gargoyles and Carnifex have this weapon listed. ?Not making it simply Extra Attacks (+1) makes it different from Rending Claws and adds a neat weapon to the Tyranid arsenal. Weapons that don't "do anything" for the creature can be removed from their profiles, cleaning up the list and making it easier to read as well. So, what does the Hive Mind think? I do like the idea of some sort of standardisation, but I would like these to be more congruent with 40k, while at the same time abstracting a lot of 40k level detail. For instance, I think the basic weapon for most bugs could be: 'Claws', or 'Teeth and Claws', or 'Talons' I don't think rending claws should give +1 attack - that is confusing, (especially considering that Scything talons are what gives an extra attack in 40k). Instead just have the clearer notation of 2x Talons, or 2x Claws. I agree on the Monstrous Claws proposition, except that these should be restricted to biotanks, and the Carnifex and Hive Tyrant. No other creature has the armour busting qualities of these creatures. ?I don't believe Lictors should have MW - they are steatlhy ambushes, they don't have the physique of a tyrant or carni to support MW class weapons. Definitely not on warriors. ?I also think Jervis's orginal V3 stats for both genestealers and lictors were better representations of their ability and utility. As to bioplasma, this is just one biomorph among many in 40k that gives some sort of extra close combat ability. I don't see ?why we shold single it out for special representation in epic. Rather just giving gargoyles +1 to their CC over termigaunts (so 5+ CC) is easier and cleaner. I agree on the Gargantuan claws proposition, but I would argue only extra attacks +1. As has been discussed previously, the list needs to be cleaned up so '2x' or '4x' actually means that number of weapons. I also agree with the idea of removing all unecessary detail from the list of stats. _________________ http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top

Lord Inquisitor	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:19 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm Posts: 1216 Location: Norfolk VA USA	I think that any attempt to force tyranid weaponry into such discrete categories is inevitably going to seem contrived. I suggest that in the 'Tyranid Bioweapons' part of the list - which has no rules yet associated with it - a box be added to note that Tyranid weaponry is based on the host species, and that each profile should be considered seperately from any other. Thus each tyranid can be given the appropriate weapon description AND the appropriate statline. So scything talons on hormagaunts are just assault weapons, on warriors they give +1 attack and on tyrants they're MW. Lord =I=
Top

2.0	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:52 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:44 pm Posts: 49	Quote (Hena @ 11 Nov. 2005 (07:50)) The only problem that I see in this is that there are multipliers in front of the rows when it does not have any effect. Once this has been fixed most (if not all) of the confusion is going to go away. I think its better to have same names to have same effects. If that is not so I definitely does not help. I absolutely agree, thats the only weapon issue problem I have is trying to distinguish what 2X or 4X means in each situation.  Sometimes we are mulitiplying it and other times it's just a description.  We need to take it out unless it exactly means it's a multiplyer.  I'm basically guessing in each game I play and I hate that.
Top

Lord Inquisitor	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:49 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm Posts: 1216 Location: Norfolk VA USA	There is no guessing. 2x means two lots of. If that isn't intended then that is an error that needs to be fixed. Exactly in which case is it intended as a description? Lord =I=
Top

Lord Inquisitor	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:09 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm Posts: 1216 Location: Norfolk VA USA	I still don't get how it can be interpreted to mean that, but it's clear the weapons need tidying up. Lord =I=
Top

2.0	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:18 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:44 pm Posts: 49	Ok, Lord Inquisitor, it's strange that you fail to see mis-interpretations in this thread of the CC weapons, but in my  thread about the war engines, you agreed that there are misleading and sometimes gray areas when looking at the weapon summaries for the bigger bugs (ie. scythed heirodule, haruspex, etc...)
Top

Lord Inquisitor	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:53 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm Posts: 1216 Location: Norfolk VA USA	I never said I was consistent. Yep, I said I agreed that there were some cases (notably the 2x scything talons) that are confusing. However, I still fail to understand the confusion over the bio-titan weapons. That seems crystal-clear to me, DC+1 per extra attack. Lord =I=
Top

ortron	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:27 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:48 pm Posts: 681 Location: Australia	Hi, I suggested once before about only using a number eg (2x) when it refers to multiple attacks, and spelling the word eg(two) when it is description. I think i was told this had been tried already and didn't help and so on.... But seriously, i can't see any other way if you want to describe the weapon and not confuse people. I really think that using a number x weapon ie (2 x claws) should only mean multiple of the stat line, anything else is breaking with tradition. ortron
Top

Chroma	Post subject: [Rules] Proposed Tyranid Close Combat Weapon List. Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:26 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	I think the one thing that needs to be determined to put all this behind us is if Jervis intended creatures like the Dominatrix or Bio-Titans to have +1 attacks or +4 attacks, and then we can redo the wording. I had always assumed it was meant to be the +4 (or whatever, more than +1) because the 'Nids are supposed to be monsters in close-combat, and particulary with the Criticals often being "Lose one Gargantuan Claw attack..." MaksimSmelchak, is there any way you can find this out? _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top

Display posts from previous: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by AuthorPost timeSubject AscendingDescending

Print view

Previous topic | Next topic

Page 1 of 2

[ 18 posts ]

Go to page 1, 2  Next

Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net