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[OLD] Tyranid Army List v10.2

 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:42 pm 
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Andrew and I played another one yesterday I'll get report up soon. Aiming for another in next few days vs another opponent. Let me know when you're free again too Glyn. Hope the new place is working out BTW!

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:01 pm 
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I have enough for two groups (mine and Speaker to Machines), I'm waiting on one more group for six reports. Currently Markco is in the lead with two, PFE has two as well but one of them was against an experimental list.

I also found a rep from JumpingJehovah that I never saw before in my search. Going to read it now.

fredmans also said he'd be doing some reports at a tourney soon. If all his games are against approved lists that be four.

So we're inching forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:01 pm 
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Markconz wrote:
Andrew and I played another one yesterday I'll get report up soon. Aiming for another in next few days vs another opponent. Let me know when you're free again too Glyn. Hope the new place is working out BTW!


Awesome, thanks man.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:45 pm 
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Going well thanks Mark. I'm busy for the next week or so, but hopefully we can get another game in after that. If you'd like to use the tyranids again maybe I could borrow your Feral Orks?

Dave - I'm pleased to hear it's coming on well :) Good work with the list. How does it work with international games out of curiousity? I'm in Marks group in Christchurch. If I were to play a tyranid playtest online against Alf say and post up a battle report could that count also?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:59 pm 
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We never really laid that out. So long as there's some overlap in players though I think yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:42 am 
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The world's just one big epic family...

Glad to hear the new place is good Glyn and sure you're welcome to borrow whatever you want, including the Tyranids for that matter!! Might be good for me to play against them!

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:19 am 
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Dave wrote:
I'm not trying to discount your opinion mspaetauf, just telling you what we've gleaned in our games. Can you point in to any pics/reports so I can see how your terrain's laid out/what the bugs are doing?


I'll try to post a battle report tomorrow, since I will be playing Eldar tonight with the bugs (good think I took a look here again since I wasn't sure which army to use ;)).

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:20 pm 
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Dave wrote:
fredmans also said he'd be doing some reports at a tourney soon. If all his games are against approved lists that be four.

So we're inching forward.


Well, bad luck had it I faced two developmental lists (Vior'la Tau and NetEA AMTL) and one EpicUK list (Thousand Sons). I will, of course, post the reports. There was another Tyranid player using 10.2 Tyranids, but I do not think he took notes and pictures. He placed 2nd and I placed 5th (out of 10). Anyway, he lives in Stockholm, so I will see if we can get a few more games in the near future aiming to get the battle reports required.

/Fredmans


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Well at least it got played. Any thoughts? Either from you, the other guy or the opponents?

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:10 pm 
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I have uploaded the photos and will start typing notes tonight.

As it happened, we took similar lists based on Dominatrix and Hierodule, with minor differences. I heard noone complain at all about Tyranids being overpowered. The concensus after the tournament was that they were more than OK. Most of what is powerful is so only in CC, which always will be an army negative in Epic:A. People who had experience with earlier versions of the lists were happy with the riddance of auto-rallying broken Synapse Swarm, and both of us Tyranid players were as well.

I sometimes hear people being negative about all the 4+ RA saves scattered throughout the list, but I think it is needed to establish the resiliance needed of a foot-slogging CC army if you want the Tyranid player to play aggressively, something which I think is in everyone's interest.

Spawning is easy and quick to implement now. A few extra seconds in the end turn sequence, much less than a minute.

A few minor things I'd just reflect upon before getting to approved.

Gargoyles. The only way to get them is through a formation upgrade. This is always going to be a negative. I would seriously consider +20 points and keep Brood (2) or +25 points and Brood (1). People might buy a few.

Raveners. I like them and have tried them a lot, but for 175 points, I get 5 Raveners (10 x CC4+ attacks and 2 5+ save) or 2 Warriors and 8 gaunts. (which is 10 CC3+ attacks if I go Hormagaunts, 2 5+ saves coming with Synapse Fearless and Spawning). I have not seen anyone else take them either.

I could see them go down to +30, giving you 3 raveners and 10 points to spare or 2 slugs. Another option would be to upgrade gaunts (like LatD) to Raveners. Maybe a +20 points cost?

Dactylis. As most people point out. 4 Dactylis in the Independent section costs 400. 440 gives you a Tyrant and 8 gaunts as well. My first question is whether Dactylis should be available as an upgrade, and the same probably goes for Biovores and Exocrines as well. I see why Assault Slugs should be, but maybe artillery/ranged shooting should be considered Independents and left there. If they should stay as an upgrade, I think Dactylis at least should cost more. Of the arty bugs, I do not think anyone else but Dactylis are really spammable. 4 Exocrines are not that good, but 4 Dactylis really are.

/Fredmans


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:59 pm 
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Ok so Harsupexes and Carnfexes seem ok from the last game.
Exocrine still concerned they are a bit slow, but will have to test them more.


Why though does the Hierophant not have a Biocannon given the Dom and Dule both have them and it will be on almost all old school models? This seems like a mistaken carry over from efforts to match the list to models and ideas that never eventuated in the Epic Armageddon era rather than something that should be retained now. Bioplasma is a special breath weapon of the Hierophant, not a biocannon. For something over 500 points I really think it should have the bio-cannon same as the Dule, and the list should match the models not the other way around. Perhaps this means it should be 550 points or something but it is already a great deal of points for something so vulnerable to TK weapons.

If taking the 60cm blast weapon it also suffers from the irritating double blast that loses ignore cover ability phenomenon, would be great if something could be done about this... tweaking barrage points, range, points or something perhaps.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:39 pm 
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fredmans wrote:
Dactylis. As most people point out. 4 Dactylis in the Independent section costs 400. 440 gives you a Tyrant and 8 gaunts as well. My first question is whether Dactylis should be available as an upgrade, and the same probably goes for Biovores and Exocrines as well. I see why Assault Slugs should be, but maybe artillery/ranged shooting should be considered Independents and left there. If they should stay as an upgrade, I think Dactylis at least should cost more. Of the arty bugs, I do not think anyone else but Dactylis are really spammable. 4 Exocrines are not that good, but 4 Dactylis really are.


In my opinion, it's the independent Dactylis swarm that is overpriced. 400 points is too much for a slow, medium-range 4BP artillery formation. Durable, yes, but really not that dangerous.

Markconz wrote:
Ok so Harsupexes and Carnfexes seem ok from the last game.
Why though does the Hierophant not have a Biocannon given the Dom and Dule both have them and it will be on almost all old school models? This seems like a mistaken carry over from efforts to match the list to models and ideas that never eventuated in the Epic Armageddon era rather than something that should be retained now. Bioplasma is a special breath weapon of the Hierophant, not a biocannon. For something over 500 points I really think it should have the bio-cannon same as the Dule, and the list should match the models not the other way around. Perhaps this means it should be 550 points or something but it is already a great deal of points for something so vulnerable to TK weapons.

If taking the 60cm blast weapon it also suffers from the irritating double blast that loses ignore cover ability phenomenon, would be great if something could be done about this... tweaking barrage points, range, points or something perhaps.


I agree heartily with this. I still suggest that the Bio-Titans should be able to pick any two different weapons from the Bio-Titans arm weapons list (Bio-Cannon, Bile Launcher, Pyro-acid Spray, Cluster Spines, Razorclaw). They are, as far as I can see, reasonably equal in power and utility, and it would let people play WYSIWYG with their Bio-Titans however they are modeled.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:51 pm 
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fredmans wrote:
People who had experience with earlier versions of the lists were happy with the riddance of auto-rallying broken Synapse Swarm, and both of us Tyranid players were as well.


They're OK with Synapse Swarms auto-rallying if they're outside of 30cm of the enemy?

Quote:
Gargoyles. The only way to get them is through a formation upgrade. This is always going to be a negative. I would seriously consider +20 points and keep Brood (2) or +25 points and Brood (1). People might buy a few.


Agreed, once the list is approved I'd like to playtest they at 20 points, Brood (2).

Quote:
I could see them go down to +30, giving you 3 raveners and 10 points to spare or 2 slugs. Another option would be to upgrade gaunts (like LatD) to Raveners. Maybe a +20 points cost?


I had not played with them, what's are other people's thoughts here? Should we try them at 30?

Quote:
Dactylis


Again, agreed. I want to playtest them at 75 points each in the Synapse Swarm once we're approved.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Markconz wrote:
Why though does the Hierophant not have a Biocannon given the Dom and Dule both have them and it will be on almost all old school models?


The first version had each of the weapons as 0-1, and the Razorclaws at 0-2. You could arm either bio-titan with two weapons, just not the same type (aside from the Razorclaws). People complained it was too flexible so I removed it (although there were no playtests to back it).

I'd like to try it that way again once we're approved if people are willing.

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