That first version sounds much better. "Too flexible" sounds ill-considered given how inflexible all those weapons actually are. No matter what you take you get some very limited firepower in comparison to other armies titans (e.g. no macro or TK, and rubbish to hit values) or you take a close combat razorclaw that strengthens what the titan is already good at while further exacerbating the armies ranged weakness. Furthermore all these weapons are on a titan that is unshielded and vulnerable to suppression.

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I'm fine with tweaking the other bits after we're approved, but I think Dactylis should really go up to 75 points in the approved list. It's only a small change (so shouldn't effect being approved) to a unit that is recognised as too cheap and powerful at the moment.

I'm inclined to agree with this too. At 500 points for a 4BP Artillery formation I'm not sure it will be used much, but at 440 it is too much of a bargain compared to the independents and it is something that sprang out as problematic on my first reading of the list (hence why I inflicted it on poor Glyn to highlight the problem).

I'd also shift the Biotitans back to the previous version favoured by myself and STM (or at least give the Hierophant a biocannon like everything else), given the changes to the latest version appear to have occurred by opinion rather than playtesting and given the weapons themselves are so innocuous for the points involved in addition to being non-synergistic and intefering with biotitans primary role as CC monsters.

I also agree with Glyn, Kyrt, Matt, Jimmy Alf etc, or favouring a practical and piratical approach to playtesting with 18 games and some minor tweaks allowed - rather than the unjustified "holy scripture" approach where no changes can be made.
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Or as Matt suggested:


Incidentally I should be playing another 3 games with or against Tyranids this weekend... and can easily add more to test out the other ideas if necessary.

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If you can do battle reports we'd be good for approval.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

Yeah will do.

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I also agree on this.

disclaimer, I don't play tyranids so haven't tested the them myself, but I have played against them several times (and I'm also in the process of starting up a tyranid force).

Secondly I agree with fredmans on the raveners, they seem overpriced (I have faced them). A price decrease or making them upgrades (to gaunts) should probably solve the issue. I agree though to wait with this until after approval if you feel like its to big a change Dave.

I also think that the Dactylis should go up in points before going for approved, we all know it's too cheap right now. Also, more flexibility for the Bio-titans seems fair enough - I can't see it confusing too many people!

I'm a little more undecided on the Raveners. I guess a 5 point decrease would be ok. So you pay a 10 point tax for an extra attack at the cost of an extra body. They'd probably fall behind even the gargoyles in the spawning queue though... They're in a slightly unique position of having different roles or abilities depending how they're fielded. If they're with Trygons they're going to be tunneling and not spawning, at least not there anyway, so I guess that offsets any price difference?

I think i've probably just talked myself into it?! Is there a reason a 5 point decrease is any less valid a reason for not getting added in pre-approval than a 15 point increase? I'm easy either way, it'd probably be better not to submit a list for approval that we know we want to change. Might be worth have a word in Tim or Steve's (?) ear just to see if we're worrying about nothing?

I'll make note of the price change when I bring it up, I doubt Tim will have an issue when most of the play-test base is in favor of it AND it's an increase.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

Seeing as this list is soon up for finalization and approval I'd like to make a suggestion.

I suggest that you take away the S M L swarm concept from the independent (only) swarms. Right now the concept doesn't really add anything.

I mean the M and L biovore, Exocrine and Harridian cost exactly the same as taking the small swarm with corresponding amount of upgraded creatures and since being M or L doesn't effect any upgrades it makes them redundant choices.

The only swarm that there's a difference is the dactylis but it's only 25 points and I don't think I've seen anyone take more than 4 anyway. So there really wouldn't be any real difference.

I guess it's a rather silly thing to worry about but I think it would make for a prettier/cleaner list (important I know ) and also list building a little more intuitive.

just my 0.02$

Glad to see we might finally get an approved Nid List!

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