So i'm back home and have all my books handy
The Bio-Cannon should definately be 2 x 45cm AP3+/AT4+ Ignore Cover as it's roughly the same as two Demolisher shots.
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| [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21657 |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
I wanted to preface the Bio-Titan thread (hoping to post later today) with stats for all the old Bio-titan weapons. I don't have the SM/TL stats with me but the NetEpic stats are very close so we'll go with those for the moment: Code: Bile Launcher 100cm 1 3+ -3 Bio-Cannon 75cm 3 5+ -3 Cluster Spines 50cm 8BP 3+ -1 Pyro-Acid Spray 0cm Template 3+ -2 Ignoring special rules for the moment, range-wise there's a clear progression: Pyro-Acid Spray, Cluster Spines, Bio-Cannon and Bile Launcher. Given that I'm looking to give those EA ranges of 15cm, 30cm, 45cm and 60cm respectively. For firepower: The Bile Launcher is the weakest, it's 1/3 the shots of the Bio-cannon but it does have a handy barrage-like special rule for splatter. Given that I was looking at giving it 3BP. The Bio-Cannon has good armor penetration (-3) and rate of fire. With that and the 40k stats for them I'm going with a MW4+ for these. The Cluster Spines have a lot of barrage points, enough that I think 4BP ought to work here. Finally, the Pyro-Acid Spray has good armor penetration and using the flamer template to hit. Rather than try to bring that back though I think 3BP MW works. However, they did have Ignore Cover in NetEpic (not sure about SM/TL), thoughts about adding that as well given its 15cm range? Code: Bile Launcher 60cm 3BP - Bio-Cannon 45cm MW4+ - and (15cm) SA Extra Attack (+1), Macro-weapon Cluster Spines 30cm 4BP - Pyro-Acid Spray 15cm 3BP Macro-weapon (perhaps Ignore Cover) So what we're left with are weapons who's relative power decreases as their range increases. I think they'll be fairly easy to balance this way. Thoughts? For the Razorclaw, obviously a TK CC attack is needed, I was thinking TK (1D3). They also had frag spines embedded into them as well, I was thinking of doing something similar to the Eldar Titan Power Fist here, namely EA (+2) in FF if the Razorclaw isn't used for CC. Thoughts? Code: Razorclaw (base contact) Assaults Weapons Extra Attack (+1), Titan-killer (1D3)
or (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attack (+2) |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
From the modern standpoint, there are only two Bio-titan weapons; the Biocannon and (bloody huge) Scything Talons. Personally I think the wide variety of bio-weapons should be kept for a bio-titan focused list rather than in a core list. |
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| Author: | MikeT [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
I dunno, the above 5 weapons aren't that much, they certainly leave scope for more in a Titan specific list |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
I'd echo Zombo on this one. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
Those thoughts aside, what do you think of the stats? We're not talking army lists at this point. |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
Well I dislike the Biocannon stat, I prefer the old 2 shots and AP focused ones. Definitely don't have both MW and Ignore Cover on a barrage; one or the other. Cluster Spines seem more like something that should give extra FF than biocannons. |
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| Author: | Jaggedtoothgrin [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
i'd rather see the acid get disrupt and ignore cover, giving it MW and IC is a bit nasty i think i agree with zombo on the cluster spines getting the extra firefight attacks. i also think that for the most part, he's probably right about not needing too many options for weapons in the core list. i'd suggest like the gargants, have a default option, with a "can swap X for Y" option. pick a weapon that suits (either bile if you're swapping the claws, or probably the cluster spines if you're trading the biocannons) and leave the rest for somewhere else |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
So i'm back home and have all my books handy The Bio-Cannon should definately be 2 x 45cm AP3+/AT4+ Ignore Cover as it's roughly the same as two Demolisher shots. |
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| Author: | arkturas [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
Other Bio-Titan Weapons (according to Netepic) include Ripper Tentacles, Spore Pod and Stinger Salvo which I believe all had models which bump it to 9 weapons total (if you include the modern really big scything talons) |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
Titan-grade Scything Talons, Bio-Cannons and Ripper Tentacles is all what we need for the two lists. The Bio-titan list can use the other weapons. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
Stat time: Code: Bile Launcher 60cm 3BP - Bio-Titan Bio-Cannon 45cm 3x AP4+/AT5+ - Cluster Spines 30cm 4BP - Pyro-Acid Spray 15cm 3BP Ignore Cover Ripper Tentacles (base contact) Assault Weapons Extra Attack (+2), First Strike Razorclaw (base contact) Assault Weapons Extra Attack (+1), Titan-killer (1D3) or (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attack (+1) Massive Scything Talons (base contact) Assault Weapons Extra Attack (+1), Titan-killer Gargantuan Scything Talons (base contact) Assault Weapons Extra Attack (+1), Titan-killer (1D3) I'd rather not add extra FF attacks to the cluster spines since it never had them before. I'm just looking to extrapolate the SM/TL effects into EA. For the bio-cannon, the titan-grade version had more attacks in SM/TL hence the RoF increase for it here. For the Ripper Tentacles, I think the the current 9.2.1 rules are fair enough. I don't believe Spore Pods or Stinger Salvos ever had models however, hence why they've been left out. We can obviously add them in at a later date however. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
Bio-Cannon should be the same for each creature. Still thonk 2 x AP3+/AT4+ is the way to go. Ripper Tentacles would be more proper represented if they would give First Strike to the basic CC-attacks. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
Just leave the bio-cannon as the same for each creature please. You're just adding unnessesary complication otherwise IMO. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
So noted on the bio-cannon. |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Bio-titan weapons |
Interesingly, the biocannon on the hierophant in the apocalypse rules does actually have more shots than the Barbed Hierodule one, so we could go either way on that one. |
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