Greetings Broodlings!

A new evolution is upon us: Tyranids v9.2!  Changes... but not *extreme* changes!

Rule Changes:

Xenopsychology - Tyranid Swarms

-two types of Swarms, Independent and Synapse.
-"control range" checked in the End Phase (this needs *HEAVY* testing!)

Xenopsychology - Relentless

-base Initiative rating of 2+ with a +2 for Engages and Rally tests.

Xenopyschology - Expendable

-only in effect if Synapse creatures are present

Xenobiology - Spawning

-simplfied spawning costs:



-spawning allowed after Regroup or Rally

Rules Added:

Xenobiology - Mobility

-Tyranid AVs ignore dangerous terrain
-Tyranid LVs move as infantry, "Heavy Infantry" in effect

Tunnelling

-added from the rulebook

Rules Removed:

-Flamer Template... sorry Hena! Converted to short-ranged BP weapons.

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Unit Changes:

-Tyranid Warriors move 20cm
-Lictors, Raveners, and Tyranid Warriors are now LVs
-Zoanthropes are now leader Synapse addition
-Harridan is no longer Synapse, becomes an Independent war engine
-Raveners and Hormagaunts get +1 Extra Attack
-Gaunts count as half, rounded down, in combat resolution
-other minor tweaks and changes

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Army List Changes

-added Subterranean and Harrassment Swarm to Independent Swarms
-merged Assault and Nexus Synapse Groups, Hive Tyrant as "upgrade" replacing one Warrior unit
-added "0-3 Zoanthropes" upgrade to Synapse Groups
-changed Common Clutches to 3 units per Clutch

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There might be some other stuff, but I didn't note it down.

Please take a look, rip it apart, complain, comment, consult, and carry on... looking forward to your responses... and cries of anguish!

I'll post a "quick reference" for the list in the near future.

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Where the heck is everyone?!  Out on dates?  Or playing VASSAL...  

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Ok.  I'll bite... and claw..

First, an interesting evolution -- thanks for spicing up the gene pool: a lot of fun to look at and evaluate the new list.  I like the spawning rules, and I've glad you kept them.  I also like the way they have been streamlined: I think this is a significant evolutionary improvement.

Some comments: first my own personal (borrowed) hobby horse, then some observations on the changes I see.

The Proximity Spawning Penalty
One issue is penalty on spawning is the "within 30cm" -- this seems a relatively significant design element that is, I think, wrong headed: it's strengthening 'nids at a distance, and weakening them when they're 'up close and personal,' which doesn't seem to me to fit the intent of the list. I'd be tempted to reverse the sign on it: so +1d3 if within 30cm, or make it -1d3 if synapses outside of 30cm.

In game terms, I think the >30cm rule has a number of unwanted consequences: 1) it tends to increase the respawn of larger gribblies, such as those with ranges of 45 cm, for example. 2) It gives the opposing player some incentive to infight with the 'nids' rather than keeping distance. This seems 'gamey' and wrong. 3) On the other hand, a the +1D3 respawn within 30cm puts a premium on ranged fire, or on assaults that managed to take down the synapse creature -- both of which seem to shape a nid-human or nid-eldar engagement in the direction we might expect.


Fluffwise, I can't imagine we really are talking about 'spawning' at this scale. Presumably tyranids generally have life cycles longer than most bacteria. Certainly Kane plays host for what, two or three days in Alien, not the 5-7 hours that an Epic sceario represents (at the far outside).  So it doesn't make sense to posit some mama-nid finding a comfy quiet place (i.e. 30cm away from the front lines) to lay her eggs.  

If it's not actual spawning, I'd tend to think of what is happening is a reactivation of dumb bugs who'd fallen off the net in the heat of combat -- gotten confused, found somebody to chew on... etc.  As the 30cm away respawn bonus seems to anthropomorphize our dear bugs -- the behave like broken soldiers in Squad Leader, falling back from the enemy. I'd tend to think the opposite is the case; unplugged gribblies would 'march to the sound of the guns,' or rather 'scuttle to the smell of the blood.'  As such, ambitious synapse creatures attempting to reassemble the horde ought to follow them.


The issue, of course, is how this would affect balance: certainly it would not favor the nid player who liked to play a stand off game, or the SM who wanted to get 'stuck in' with the nids... but I'm not sure that these scenarios should be our concern.

Other comments:
Changed Gaunt pricing
50/4 gaunts >> 75/3... Seems a big jump in price. why?  Also, the choice between 150/6 guants and 150/6 genestealers seems to favor the genestealers pretty significantly (especially given synapse groups increased vulnerability to AT)... And, for that matter, it seems to favor gargoyles, which are also costed at 25 apiece (in a harassment swarm). It seems odd that guants are priced significantly higher than Imperial Guards. 

Independent Swarm Ambiguities: Harridans and Trygons and Gargs, oh my.
Some issues with independent swarms whose component bugs are still brood creatures: vis harassment and Subterranean swarms.
Harridan>> non synapse creature.  But gargs still brood creatures...  Is it intentional that the Harridan be tethered to a ground formation or a vituperator?

Trygons and Raveners=tunnelers, cool.  But they're still denoted as brood creatures in the unit description: presumably we need a tunneling synapse creature, or these boys have to become non-brood.


LV Warriors == no gaunt meatshields
Warriors and Zoanthopes >> LVs:  eek: doesn't this mean that AT becomes a key counter to a big gaunt and warrior horde -- this is a big change, I suspect. Also, it's noticeable that there are no longer any inf synapse creatures.  One result is that, implicitly, gaunts lose some of their previous usefulness (in shielding warriors).  This change may be justifiable... but -- from a design/balance perspective -- I'm not sure it's a good idea to change both the gaunt's point value and their capabilities at the same time, not least because it corrupts the testing 'data,' such as it is.

Expendable?

Expendable: only avoid blast markers if synapse is present.  But if the synapses have bought it, blast markers can be placed?  I have mild discomfort about whether synapse=less brood creatures are still a formation -- I guess Tyranid formations are essentially "set" at begin turn and reset at end turn, fine.  But what happens to a headless swarm with 'X' blast markers at end turn?  If the swarm gets incorporated into two different swarms, what happens to these blast markers?  At the very least the sentence "note that blast markers and broken status stay with synapse groups" has to be reworded to deal with the possibility that a swarm might have its synapse group shot out from above it.

Nice list, thanks for posting: looking forward to a chance to kick these nids around.

Looks very promising :-) Glad to see some of the french changes that I suggested have made it. Will download and playtest soon :-)
Good job,
Ryan

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I've yet to read the list, but I'll comment on the notes you've given.

1/2 pts for Gaunts in Assault- yay.

I still think the idea my friend Curis suggested of reversing the 1D3 Spawning for 30cm range is a genius idea.

It means broken and badly mauled Nids will stay close to the enemy, which with their SR 1 may be game over for them- so there's advantages and disadvantages to it. At present I want to stay out of 30cm with Nids, sit in cover and respawn Monsters- a bit gamey and dull.

The Nids should want to close with the enemy, whilst the enemy should want to stay at arms range- the opposite is true in the current rules and that is a strong disconnect with the fluff.

Background wise- I agree that it represents Brood creatures that have gone to ground, been wounded or scurried off being called back to fight by the Synapse. This isn't Spawning, but Spawning is a cool one-word title.

I see the Synapse being docile when no enemy is around (more than 30cm) but when they scent the enemy they scream out a psychic call for aid to all lurking Broods, etc (within 30cm).


Light Vehicles- The death of Warriors in Epic. I see no point in taking them if they are as targetable as all other (more resilient) Synapse. It's one more reason not to take Gaunt swarms.

I'll comment in more depth when I have time.

Well, thinking background-wise, shouldn't it be possible for enemy who knows what he is doing to take out hulking synapse creatures from the midst of smaller bugs? It makes lots of sense and if it's too disadvantageous for nids it should be compensated somehow (by making warriors cheaper or something like that) instead of removing it.

True, in 40k you can't blow away a Warrior with a Lascannon shot, but they went WAY overboard making nids immune to Instant Death of any kind which led to the massively annoying current situation of the table swarming with multiwound T4 creatures that are impossible to kill in one shot in any way whatsoever barring Titan Killer hits (a Warrior or Zoanthrope will dust itself off and walk away with a wound left after getting hammered with a turbolaser destructor).

Hey Jeridian, I'll agree that this is a cool idea... and, if you want, while playtesting try it out and let us know how it works!

The "fluff" counter-argument to it though is that, since they're disorganized and out-of-control, the nearby enemy would have an easy time "picking off" those straggling creatures that are near their positions, so why would there be so many more for the Tyranids to gather up?

Anyway... I... yes, I *CHALLENGE* you to play with the "Curis Variant" of spawning next time you play... and I want to see the battle report!  

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It's a "shoot the big ones" kind of approach, I'll admit... and there are lots of things that can "screen" the vulnerable Warriors now.

Again, this is playtest/development stuff; if it proves to be a problem, changes will be made.

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Well, essentially the old list had that too, in an formation that had a variable size... I just reworded it.  *laugh*

And it mentally prepares people for the possibility of the "Ork-style" list in the future.

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I went deeper into the fluff issues and the game issues in my earlier post.

Your counterfluff is well taken.. I agree that spawning rules are essentially a way of abstracting constant a 'background noise' of inconsequential combat. But I think there's an argument as to the number of gribblies involved. As I imagine it, Tyranid stragglers are the odd millions of gribblies left over twenty years hence. In phase IV subdual, the question is not "can you find targets?" but rather "did you save a bullet for yourself."

This view of the swarm is also a reason to question the newfound ability to snipe at warriors: sure you can see them in the distance, but the ongoing --em-- zergling rush would generally prevent precision targeting.

Which is why you can't "snipe" them in an assault... where it's frantic... but you can at a distance... where it's deceptively calm... *laugh*

Again, if it winds up being a significant problem, things will adapt.

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:-).

Deceptively calm?  It sounds like you're talking about 1950s cinematic Russians or Zulus... or Orks.  I'd imagine with Tyranids we want to be be talking about a range where the baseline is deceptively frenetic, and the range runs through frantic, to sheer horror.

You can tell a swarm has carried out an assault when the live tyranids are climbing over each other.  

Game-wise, it certainly is a significant problem for the warrior-gaunt swarm, which is no longer viable. Indeed, it seems strange to entirely remove the gaunt's usefulness as a meat shield. Fair enough, if your intent was to evolve that particular formation out of existence in favor of more 'combined arms' swarms -- I'm just not sure that there's much need to encourage 'combined arms' with this army.

Well you can add Raveners, Zoanthrophes and Carnifexes to cover the Tyranid Warriors.

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True enough: it ends up being an interesting job concocting a proper combined arms swarm.

But then the question is whether you bother buying gaunts at all. Maybe it's for the best... but these are significant changes, and I'll be interested to hear the reasoning behind them -- certainly much of the previous conversation was over whether gaunts were gimped already: this seems a radical solution to that problem.