Greetings Broodlings!

This is the NetERC's "Minor Army Month", used for looking at and testing variant lists, so, in keeping with my insanity of releasing a "minor" army every couple of days, I decided to update the Phase III 'Attack' Tyranid list at the same time as I was updating the core Bug list.

This army list requires the v9.2.1 to be used properly.

Rules Changes:

Added "Brood Swarms" as a distinct formation... no Synapse, only Broods, swarming forward.

I read every bit of Tyranid fluff I could get my hands on and, sorry Zombo, but I couldn't actually find anything that had Warriors and Guants moving around together in an indistinguishable swarm... all the stories I read had the enemy readily identifying the Warriors or other "big ones" and firing on them while Guants and such swarmed forward to overrun them.  So, this list allows actual "Guant Swarms"...  and they should be able to do the dirty business!

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Unit Changes:

-Hive Mind Link is now inspiring, but hands out Blast markers to Synapse swarms if it's "cut".
-Mycetic Spores had there weapon changed a bit: AP5+/AT6+, ignore cover, disrupt

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Army List Changes

-updated the point values to v9.2.1
-added Brood Swarms

I'm still not 100% in the value for the Mycetic Spores... waffling between 5 or 10 points per unit.

I'd still like people to playtest the Phase IV list for the most part, but this one is fun too.

Let me know what you think (and how many typos I left in there)!

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Chroma,

ePilgrim, Dave, Tim, and I discussed this at length last year during the tournament when we watched a Phase III army crush everything in site.  It was hideous and even Dave said it was overpowered.  A number of points came up (although not necessarily agreed upon):

Dropping should be a liability, not an asset
The Tyranids are not hitting the ground in a tactical sense.  They are attacking the PLANET.  Sure, they may direct larger concentrations to one spot or another but it seems completely wrong to turn them into a front line attacking force that drops from the sky and cuts off all avenue of escape.  If anything, they should be scattering all over the board and the challenge should be for the Tyranid player to coalesce his forces in time deal with an organized foe on the ground.  

The Acidic Spore Bursts are way too much like Space Marines Drop Pods which are a massive assist to and SM army.  When you combine it with Tyranids assaulting in mass and a captive 'audience', it makes things highly unlikely that the Bug player will lose and makes things very un-fun for the opponent.

IMO the list needs a complete re-write in how it deploys and organizes itself on the board.

Sorry to be so negative but this was something that was hotly debated for two days and -since Phase III will conceivably be in the supplement we're working on - I have a vested interest in seeing it come together well.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I like the list but my first reaction is : wow, those mycetic spores are way too powerful!  

I've been on both ends of a Marine drop pod assault and I've always found the Deathwind module to be a nasty weapon. But this...   A 15cm AP5+/AT6+ attack on every unit in range, with Disrupt AND Ignore Cover? Why would a 'nid player NOT max out on these?

Even with the "1/4 of the points" limit and the fact that you have to take a Hive Ship for the spores to work, you can still get 450 points worth of spores, enough to carry 90 units!

As Moscovian pointed out, Tyranids don't make coordinated drop pod attacks, they just "rain down" on the planet. They should probably arrive in a more random manner.

Just an idea: free spores with no ranged attack, divide the table in 6 parts and roll a dice to see in which part of the table they land... also, remove most or all weapons from the Hive ship and allow more than 1 Hive Ship per army.

Also, I have one question: can Brood Swarms be integrated to Synapse Swarms in the end phase?

Although I probably can't run this list for the near future as I'm short on infantry it does seem a bit over the top.

The way I see it, when those mycetic spores come down each one is acting as a 2BP orbital bombardment with a bigger template (Standard is 7.4cm, Orbital is 12cm, Mycetic Spore is 30cm).

I would consider (some of)the following
1) Synapse and Brood Swarms get weaponless mycetic spores for free.
2) Hive ship is not required, this is a planetary attack there will be a lot of them about.
3) The tyranid player can buy upto 2 acid bomb spores per mycetic drop swarm. 2BP per spore.
4) All Mycetic drop swarms and spores are split equally to drop on turn 1,2 or 3 (eg 4 swarms are split so 1 swarm lands on each of the first 3 turns and 1 swarm lands on the players choice turn). Dropping takes place at the beginning of the turn and Nids deployed may be activated as normal on the turn they drop.
5) The drop locations are randomised. The table is split into 6 with a random section chosen. The tyranid player chooses a location in that section and scatters 2D6cm if hit is rolled 2D6x2 if direction arrow.

That would be something interesting and fun to work with, although balancing it might be another thing entirely.

Just running with this...

Remove the spaceship and make everything in the list touch down using Hojyn's idea but over the course of the entire game rather than in just one turn. That would simulate a rain of spores pretty well I think.

We could either limit the number of swarms/points that can land each turn or make each swarm roll an activation test in order to touch down. Perhaps at a -3 (5+) as that would spread the swarms out pretty well over a 4 turn game.

Landing would be the swarms activation for that turn (from what I've read Tyranids are vulnerable as they burst from the spores). To compensate I'd argue for a spore attack similar to drop pods.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

What the others said, simulate a rain of spore pods over the course of the game.

I think the spore attack is ok drop pod style, but should be AP6 disrupt. The diameter of the attack 15cm is sufficiently nasty. AV only formations would still get a blast marker for coming under fire.

A Space ship would be fine, but not for dropping, just for the fun of a really realy nasty orbital bombardment. Not sure it should have a pinpoint attack...

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[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]

I'll re-examine the "drop podding" thing... but make sure you're aware it's a single "Mycetic Spore" attack per *swarm* that's dropped, not one per *unit* dropped.

Also, no comments on Brood Swarms?

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

The spore attack might work IF the drop-pod-like tactical landing was changed to the random spread.  Having to pay for them forces the Tyranid player to decide between bulk or laying BMs before even knowing where he will land.  That sounds pretty cool!  

Pin point attacks seem cheesy for Tyranids.  I've only read two Tyranid books but neither of them gave any indication of targeting with any specificity.  They are a lot like the Borg, concerned about the big picture and only dealing with the little picture when it is a grave threat.  

I don't think the Spacecraft are necessary, but I'm not opposed to them either.  If the Tyranid's opponent brings a spacecraft it begs the question as to what is happening - can the Tyranids planetfall on the same turn as a planetfall from the opponent?

I like the continual rain of Tyranids idea.  Swarms could end up forming in the most useless of places or reinforcing an all-important location.  The Bug player will have to play this very carefully to maximize his position on the board as opposed to the "HULK SMASH!" technique or destroying everything on turns 1-2 and then strolling to collect objectives in turn 3.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Yes, and when playing the Space Marines even three drop pods can cover most of your enemy formations with a single BM.  The scatter helps mitigate, but sometimes it aggravates things as well.  This sets up the opponent to fail activations and every formation to be automatically -2 going into an assault (+1 to the SM or Tyranids for no BMs, +1 for the enemy having more BMs).  

It is wrong for the Tyranids.  It feels wrong fluff wise and balance wise it screams foul play.  Either of these reasons would be sufficient enough to change things but both of them together tells me it must change.

I did bring these things up last year but I guess the ideas got lost in the ocean of Epicdom.  It is good to know others are thinking along the same lines.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

No, but I asked a question about them.  

I'm aware it is only one "spore attack" per swarm but it's still a huge number of potential attacks. I've seen my Eldars crumble under the combined attacks of just 2 drop pods... and they didn't have Disrupt or Ignore Cover.

Yes the Space Marine Deathwind attack is really nasty. It's like a 2BP 30cm diameter barrage (that only hits enemies) Combine these tactically and it's a horror! This why scouts where banned from drop pods, so you can't max out on deathwind attacks so easily!?

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[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]

I remember this conversation. The only time I managed to beat a Phase III army was by tailoring my army in anticipation of facing it. I did with an AMTL army and with a Knight army (and possibly Orks). For the most part, playing a Phase III army, when four detachments are falling right on top of you, is not fun. I recall one game Dave and I played that was for all intents and purposes over before Turn 1 was even completed.

I like the idea of random drops as a solution.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Well, you do all realize that *NO* army in the fluff has ever actually stopped a Phase III invasion...  

First off, the Phase III list isn't supposed to *just* be a "Tyranid Drop" list, but an early stage "Vanguard" attack as well, so I'd like that option to remain as a choice.

If the "dropping" stuff was more expensive, or if only Synapse Swarms could be dropped, or... yikes, "Slow and steady" on the Hive Ship... all those would curb some of the excess of dropping.  With only having a Strategy Rating of 3, the Tyranids have a decent chance of not going first or even having their drop "bumped" if the other army has a ship... as well, it activates on a 2+, so might not even come in on time.

A "random" dropping system is going to be very tough to balance and will have a high likelihood of make unbalanced games... would be great for a scenario though, but I think the Tournament List needs a bit more precision.

I'll do more work on this... but you go play some more v9.2.1 instead!    

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

It doesn't have to be a random drop.  You can force the player to drop evenly across the board, placing formations where he chooses but requiring each section of the board be occupied.  There might be other solutions as well.

The vanguard formations most certainly could/should remain since they stay in the deployment zone it really isn't the worrying factor.  But you also want to have a Tyranid force that is different from 9.2.1 (or whatever may follow) so you can play differently.

The one idea that doesn't work though is the one in use though - the classic SM drop army with Tyranids.  Drop armies box their opponents in place and the sheer mass of a Tyranid army is enough to prohibit movement and stifle maneuvering.  It isn't like the SMs or even the Necrons, where moving around them and passed them is completely viable because of the lack of presence on the board.  Besides, the SMs suck.  

Well, you do all realize that *NO* army in the fluff has ever actually stopped a Phase III invasion...

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Hmmm... what if they had to target objectives... one drop per objective, no doubling up until all objectives have a targetted pod...

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?