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Tyranid AA
Ilushia
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:10 pm 
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This has probably come up before, but I figured I'd post an idea I had earlier today, just for kicks. Has anyone considered removing all the AA from the list and adding something like this:

"Clogging the Skies: Tyranid invasion forces are often preceded by swarms of gargoyles, mycetic spores and a myriad other small creatures which clog the engines of opposing aircraft, slam into their windscreens or explode when approached in acidic bile. To represent this constant threat to aircraft use, all opposing aircrafts are attacked at AA 7+ after making their approach moves. For purposes of determining the 'front' of the unit when removing casualties consider the attacks to originate from the Tyranid board edge."

Not accurate, not particularly lethal, but it will place a blast marker and fairly well, I think, represents the inherent danger of flying during a Tyranid invasion. Probably need to cost points and appear on the 'nid list somewhere, just to make it fair. But I figure 7+ to hit makes it a low enough hit rate that the 'can't be removed' isn't such a big deal.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:14 pm 
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I don't think a board-wide AA system is justifiable for Tyranids, as it's a free ability that doesn't scale properly (So against an all-ground army it's useless, against a Tau flying circus it's awesome).

I concur that dropping AA from Gargoyles would be good (Or inserting a line that a Gargoyle stand that 'hits' is removed from play at the least).

Upping Meiotic Spore Mines to Speed 15cm or giving them Scout are other options.




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Chroma
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:54 pm 
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(Ilushia @ Nov. 07 2007,19:10)
QUOTE
"Clogging the Skies: Tyranid invasion forces are often preceded by swarms of gargoyles, mycetic spores and a myriad other small creatures which clog the engines of opposing aircraft, slam into their windscreens or explode when approached in acidic bile. To represent this constant threat to aircraft use, all opposing aircrafts are attacked at AA 7+ after making their approach moves. For purposes of determining the 'front' of the unit when removing casualties consider the attacks to originate from the Tyranid board edge."

Something like that rule might work for scenarios, but I think it's too much for the Tournament Scenario... opponents hate having to face something they can do *nothing* about, for one thing.  *laugh*

Keep thinking creative thoughts though!

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:28 am 
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Has anyone thought that instead of trying to fit an AA unit in that Nids get some sort of effect that forces a negative roll on aircraft to approach?

e.g a 4+ action test to come on due to clogged engines, spores, "bird strike" etc?

It would reduce the effectiveness of aircraft just by reducing the number of times they can come on the board...


Or perhaps a negative to-hit roll due to the same effects??

I know it's another special rule but NIds really are different....

my 2 cents
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:40 am 
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I think on-board AA is the best way to go about things, rather than new special rules.

The negative action rolls come in the following turn, after you've laid a blast marker or two! :)

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Kagetora
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:28 am 
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Not fully thought through, but how about this:

Instead of adding more Spores to the formation or making them faster or giving them Scout...how about making them DC2 non-regenerating War Engines?

This represents several things...

First off, it makes them more survivable.  Give them CRAP for armor, but it takes 2 hits to get rid of the big-ass Spore floating a quarter-mile up.

Second, it gives them a 10cm Coherency range instead of 5cm.  Better, but not nearly Scout.

Lastly, it is a perfect representation of a very large, gas-filled and lightly-armored Spore floating very high up (only reachable by more powerful AT weapons as opposed to AP weaponry) and pooping out clouds and clouds of lesser spores that the enemy aircraft have to fly through (15cm AA 5+).

And just remove AA from the Gargs.  Or leave it, whatever...its completely ineffectual anyway.  My last game my opponent had 2 Fighter groups, a Bomber group, and 2 Thunderhawks...I had 8 Gargoyle Stands spread around the board.  They dropped a total of 2 BMs on the Aircraft the entire game.  Between tripling and a 15cm range, it doesn't really matter if they have AA or not it seems.

Just some thoughts.
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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:47 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 07 2007,23:40)
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I think on-board AA is the best way to go about things, rather than new special rules.

Ahh but that's boring!   :laugh:
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Nicodemus
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:18 am 
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My opinion is: Anything else than "Gargoyle in the engine", no AA for Gargoyles.

Fluffwise best option is to find good solution for sporeclouds.

I would go for that they are so high above ground (to be able to hit aircraft) that they cant interfere anything that is happening on board (so no ZOC) and they are treated more like terrain feature than unit (so no activation and only drifting in endphase). That way they cant be used as ZOC screen or cheap activation. Just like bunkers, trenches and barbedwire.

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Hojyn
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:08 pm 
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(Nicodemus @ Nov. 08 2007,06:18)
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My opinion is: Anything else than "Gargoyle in the engine", no AA for Gargoyles.

Fluffwise best option is to find good solution for sporeclouds.

I would go for that they are so high above ground (to be able to hit aircraft) that they cant interfere anything that is happening on board (so no ZOC) and they are treated more like terrain feature than unit (so no activation and only drifting in endphase). That way they cant be used as ZOC screen or cheap activation. Just like bunkers, trenches and barbedwire.

I really like that solution.

It's quite simple and doesn't create any problems (that I can see, at least).
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:25 pm 
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I don't like a no-ZOC solution, these things do bob around near the ground too.

They can't be used too extensively as cheap activations as they eat in to your Independents allocation.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:33 pm 
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(Hojyn @ Nov. 08 2007,12:08)
QUOTE

(Nicodemus @ Nov. 08 2007,06:18)
QUOTE
I would go for that they are so high above ground (to be able to hit aircraft) that they cant interfere anything that is happening on board (so no ZOC) and they are treated more like terrain feature than unit (so no activation and only drifting in endphase). That way they cant be used as ZOC screen or cheap activation. Just like bunkers, trenches and barbedwire.

I really like that solution.

It's quite simple and doesn't create any problems (that I can see, at least).

Everything old is new again... *laugh*

My *original* proposal was for a "drifting terrain feature", but that was, pun intended, shot down by many others.

1) Opponents *hate* facing something they can't directly deal with/counter/eliminate.  Saying "just avoid them" doesn't work as a rebuttal.

2) The original idea was, basically, "barbed-wire-in-the-sky" and made the area "dangerous terrain" for flyers.  This was disputed as, essentially, "AA6+ TK(1)" attacks against any number of aircraft and that their armour would make no difference against it, heck, they couldn't even "jink" to avoid it.

Nicodemus, could you expend your idea more so we can see how it differs from the original proposal?

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Rahan
 Post subject: Tyranid AA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:05 pm 
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I don't like the idea of a unit of 6 WE drifting in the battle ground. Even with FF6+, that's an open door to a lot of support fire.

I just come with this idea. The spore clouds are LV, they come by 6 for 100points, they move 15cm BUT they drift at the beginning of the turn so they do not add a cheap activation.

Then we remove the AA6+ from the gargoyles and we downgraded them to 75points with a FF6+ and armor 5+ (they are flying) (keeping spawning(2) and 30cm) so they become a nice alternative to the termagaunt (20cm, FF5+ and disposable)
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