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Ravener Poll
With armor 4+ and no infiltrator 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
With armor 5+ and infiltrator 95%  95%  [ 18 ]
Total votes : 19

Ravener Poll
Tactica
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:10 pm 
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Its been awhile since I've looked at the new tyranids codex, but don't the ravenours deep stirke?

Are they independent broods (operating outside of synapse) in 40K? (can't remember)

cheers,

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Markconz
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:46 pm 
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Quote (Tactica @ 12 April 2006 (18:10))
Its been awhile since I've looked at the new tyranids codex, but don't the ravenours deep stirke?

Are they independent broods (operating outside of synapse) in 40K? (can't remember)

cheers,

Raveners do indeed have deep strike.  I played around for ages with the idea of 'teleport' but couldnt' work out how it could work well.

They are not independant broods. Only genestealers and biovores have that ability in 40k.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:10 pm 
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Use the Trygon as Synapse for a Ravener swarm. Use planetfall to mimic their "burrow" ability.

And i don't checked th elast version of the armylist but are biovores their own independend formation as genestealers are?
If they are not then why?




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:29 pm 
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Alway wonder if voting should be restricted to 'registered' playtestors - that way when I look at these threeads I wouldn't have to resist voting (what is a ravenor anyway?).

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:42 pm 
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How would you define a "registered playtester"?
I have littleopportunity to play, but i know the Wh40k rules and most importandly the background quite well.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:14 pm 
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Quote (BlackLegion @ 12 April 2006 (22:10))
Use the Trygon as Synapse for a Ravener swarm. Use planetfall to mimic their "burrow" ability.

Since it's a Brood creature and would be "near" Synapse on most 40k boards, I think infiltrator is a better representation of its burrowing ability that teleport.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:20 pm 
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Thus i suggested a Trygon as Synapse-Creature which leads the Ravener-swarm.
And i suggested Planetfall instead of Teleport, because it is hard to sense anything if you are under the earth.

But perhabs i'm biased because i like the Trygon model and would like to see it represented well in epic  :p




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Tactica
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:57 am 
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Chroma, thanks for the insite.

I wouldn't recommend teleport in this situation either.

Rav's do seem like a very good case for infiltrate though.

Cheers,

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Math Mathonwy
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:53 pm 
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Quote (Chroma @ 12 April 2006 (17:15))
That's the description of Raveners from the new Tyranid Codex.  Fast as Hormagaunts and "Vulnerable to heavy weapons fire"... sounds like infiltrators and LVs to me!   :alien:

Terminators, Bikes and Stealth suits are also vulnerable to heavy weapons fire but they aren't Light Vehicles. All in all, Light Vehicles seem to always be singular entities and not whole groups of models. Aren't Raveners supposed to be three to a stand?

With Infiltrate they are extremely powerful though. Would 35 points be too much?
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Tactica
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:54 pm 
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LV's are supposed to be one to a stand, just like AV's. The main book is quite clear on that right up in the beginning.

The one current exception to this *currently* (but which may still change* is the abstraction that's *currently* implimented in the Tau Broadside formation.

It makes no sense mind you - but its there.

2-3 broadside models per stand plus drones - originally determined as an infantry stand BTW... just like it is in the Tau Empires Codex and the previous Tau codex... However, the cry from non-tau fans (sorry, call it like I see it) to make them LV's stuck with the champion to get us over the issue that was bringing the forum down. The comprimise was to make the crisis infantry stands. (which ironically, the crisis and broadsides are both the same size, same armored suit, one just has a bit more armor plating in place of the jump packs - LOL... but I digress...

(does it show that I'm still not pleased with the decision to make Braodsides LVs?) :/

Anyway, you are correct - LV's are mounted 1 to a stand in all booked/published armies.

Development armies - well, another beast all together. :angry:

Cheers,

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:41 pm 
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However, the cry from non-tau fans (sorry, call it like I see it)...


I believe it crosses the line to impune the intent of other people doing playtesting and developing.  If that post had been in a section of the forums where I was a moderator, I would have deleted it.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:22 pm 
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Quote (Tactica @ 13 April 2006 (17:54))
2-3 broadside models per stand plus drones - originally determined as an infantry stand BTW... just like it is in the Tau Empires Codex and the previous Tau codex... However, the cry from non-tau fans (sorry, call it like I see it) to make them LV's stuck with the champion to get us over the issue that was bringing the forum down. The comprimise was to make the crisis infantry stands. (which ironically, the crisis and broadsides are both the same size, same armored suit, one just has a bit more armor plating in place of the jump packs - LOL... but I digress...

Tactica, I've got to take a little offense at this, as you know, I'm an avid Tau playtester, love them, think they're a great army, have done many battle reports for them... am definitely a Tau fan.

Yet, I *still* think Crisis and Broadsides should be LVs (just like Raveners), cuz they *tower* over regular infantry in a way that Terminators or Obliterators don't even come close to doing.  When I compare one of my 40k Crisis suits to a Fire Warrior, the XV8 is double the size in all dimensions!  It's only slightly shorter than an Eldar War Walker and just as wide.

(Anyway, this is a discussion I'd gladly rehash in the Tau section... sorry.)

Again, that "vulnerable to heavy weapons" bit is directly from the description in the new 'Nid Codex, so I think LV should really be considered for Raveners.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:42 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 12 April 2006 (22:29))
what is a ravenor anyway?

Raveners are large snake like tyanid creatures.

In 40k they are the only creature that can take three weapon symbiotes (2 close combat and an optional ranged symbiote).  They are also what I class as semi independant when I design my armies.  They are brood creatures, with all of the effects (positive and negative that such an ability gives) but they have Ld 10 so they can work on their own most of the time.

On an aside, one of the Trygon's names is something alonmg the line of ravener mother or something like that (the FW PDF with it on has been removed)

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Jaldon
 Post subject: Ravener Poll
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:57 pm 
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Been up in the high Uinta Mountains the last three days, just got back (Still got aa good amount of brrrrrrrrrr snow up there)

The calssification of LV is supposed to be very narrow and isn't based entirely on the number of figures based on a single stand.

In most cases it is supposed to be a light vehicle that has no armor worth the name OR a vehicle that itself grants no protection to it's passangers. An Ork Buggy is a very good example of LV, as is a Space Marine Attack Bike, and Eldar Vyper.

This has been exactly how JJ expalined it to us a long time ago, (I do have this right don't I Neal?) and I am sorry but this just doesn't fit the vision I have of Ravaners. Even after spending evenings reading through the Tyranid Codex hasn't done anythjing to change my mind on this.

That same study of the codex can be interpeted to go either way on 'describing' the Ravaner as being as fast as a Hormagaunt, or not, as the former doesn't leap and the latter does. The infiltrator question.

So I posted it here to see which way the playtesters thought it should go as I would accept either interpetation as valid.

So it looks to be 5+ Armor infiltrator at 25pts.

Thanks All......

Jaldon :p

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