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Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22

 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:21 pm 
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I'm a bit affraid of nid artilleryled by a hive tyrant : fire during the turn and respawn at 1D6+4 in the end phase.
But yes, I have to playtest that before arguing...


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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:52 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 18 April 2006 (21:12))
And to spawning. Any willingess to allow hold spawning with some minuses? And I do think that we should have the -2 (-1?) modifier for being too close to the enemy.

I think it should probably be an initiative test, just like a normal rally at the end of the turn, so it's not automatic and suffers the -1 to the roll if enemies are within 30cm.

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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:01 am 
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And to spawning. Any willingess to allow hold spawning with some minuses? And I do think that we should have the -2 (-1?) modifier for being too close to the enemy.


AND

I think it should probably be an initiative test, just like a normal rally at the end of the turn, so it's not automatic and suffers the -1 to the roll if enemies are within 30cm.


Both these ideas are in my pocket to regulate the "Rally Phase Spawn Rule" if the playtesting reveals that something more is needed to regulate it. For now I don't want to insert either one, though do not get me wrong they are both good and valid ideas.

As for "comments without even playtesting"

I do not mind comments without playtesting (Like I don't think it would be a good idea for these reasons), what I do mind are comments without playtesting that contain absolutes in them (That is a dumb idea that will never work, and will cause this or that to happen).

I am about to playtest test this on sunday. Please make the v.7 avaiable before that!


I will be putting up the UGLY  :oops:  NON-PDF version up here on Epicomms either late tonight or after work tommorrow. That means the pretty nicer looking PDF version may get pushed back a bit but at least you'll all be able to mess around with it this weekend.

Thanks All................

Jaldon :p

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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:25 pm 
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Quote (Jaldon @ 19 April 2006 (01:01))
Both these ideas are in my pocket to regulate the "Rally Phase Spawn Rule" if the playtesting reveals that something more is needed to regulate it. For now I don't want to insert either one, though do not get me wrong they are both good and valid ideas.

I must say that it seems mightily powerful to be able to spawn in the rally phase no matter what. I liked it the best when you had to perform a marshall action. It had it's problems but I think that it was a good starting point. Now they seem to be breeding like rabbits with no drawbacks.

My current Nid opponent suggested that you'd need to use a Mycetic spore in order to rally without a Marshall-action. I like that idea, so it could be a third one in your pocket?


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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:02 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 19 April 2006 (05:01))
Actually I'm not sure this is a good idea. As then in some weird case one would want to fail the initiative.

Could you give an example of this Hena?

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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:33 pm 
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I'm thinking that we should make a succesful initiative test for this. I have a feeling that the overall amount of spawning will be too great.


We will only find out when we try it just which direction to go in. The realtively few games we have played using it really didn't give much of an indication which way to go. Something will be added like this, I am sure, but I waiting for more playtesting to decide just what.

I must say that it seems mightily powerful to be able to spawn in the rally phase no matter what. I liked it the best when you had to perform a marshall action. It had it's problems but I think that it was a good starting point. Now they seem to be breeding like rabbits with no drawbacks.


You do realize that the Nids are limited to adding ONE Myecetic spore to each spawning action taken in the rally phase?

The advantage this conveys to the Nid opponents is that they don't have to worry about a Swarm 'springing' back to life in the middle of a turn, hence wasting a ton of effort to beat down a swarm only to see it re-appear. In effect they can take and hold ground better then they could before, and the Synapse Creatures are more vulnerable to a concentrated attack.

The downside to the Nids is that swarms will have more diffculty holding ground during a turn, and the Synapse Creatures will have to survive to the end of the turn. The upside is that the Nids will be able to maintain their rate of advance across turns.

It will require some new tactical thinking on both sides.

Now they seem to be breeding like rabbits with no drawbacks.


Under the old system they were breeding like a virus in a dish full of nutrients, with the only drawback being they had to decide whether to move, or shoot before they spawned back the horde with a wave of the claw (and a couple of myecetic spores).

Not really much of a drawback when you start to throw in Nodes being used as spawning points for the frontline swarms.

Thanks All.....................

Jaldon :p

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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:45 pm 
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Quote (Chroma @ 17 April 2006 (15:10))
Technically, if this is the "Hamman's World" Tyranid invasion, teh Barbed Hierodule didn't yet exist, according to Imperial Armour.

You know, I've been thinking about this.

There's nothing to keep us (read: Jaldon) from changing this to a different world/campaign setting if we don't like the restrictions.  Especially with the new 40K material coming out it might be a good idea to go for a more "updated" setting for the list.

Anyone else remember the Krieg IG list?

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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:07 pm 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 20 April 2006 (14:45))
There's nothing to keep us (read: Jaldon) from changing this to a different world/campaign setting if we don't like the restrictions.

Which should then bring it's own restrictions in return...Generic catch 'em all list isn't what EpicA army lists were supposed to be.

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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:47 pm 
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Quote (tneva82 @ 20 April 2006 (15:07))
Quote (nealhunt @ 20 April 2006 (14:45))
There's nothing to keep us (read: Jaldon) from changing this to a different world/campaign setting if we don't like the restrictions.

Which should then bring it's own restrictions in return...Generic catch 'em all list isn't what EpicA army lists were supposed to be.

First, there is supposed to be a limited amount of "generic-ness" about the core racial army.  The intent for that to be true has been clearly stated and all the core lists have a lot of flexibility to approximate forces outside the official background for the list (various SM chapters, Eldar craftworlds, etc.)

Second and more importantly, I didn't propose a generic list.  I just pointed out that the setting can be changed to something that more closely reflects the desires of the list designer(s).  That's no different than the Eldar development list switching from Ulthwe setting to Biel Tan.  It's not a removal of restrictions, just a different emphasis.

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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:50 pm 
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Quote (tneva82 @ 20 April 2006 (09:07))
Quote (nealhunt @ 20 April 2006 (14:45))
There's nothing to keep us (read: Jaldon) from changing this to a different world/campaign setting if we don't like the restrictions.

Which should then bring it's own restrictions in return...Generic catch 'em all list isn't what EpicA army lists were supposed to be.

Well, I think the initial list of each army/race should be as close to a catch-all list as possible given the constraints of model availability. Certainly, the lists in the original rule book are pretty close to being catch-all lists.

The real question is whether or not all of the different big tyranid creatures are really necessary. I mean, if the difference between choices A, B, and C are minimal, it might not be worth the trouble of including all of them (aside: like, is the hydraphant really necessary?). So I guess I favor making sure each of the choices is as distinct as possible.


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 Post subject: Nid v7.0 List changes from v6.22
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:00 pm 
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aside: like, is the hydraphant really necessary?


I really like the idea of it even if it's not necessary.

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