Remember this is a 0.1.1 list. Dave is attempting to create something at my direction and input important. However...



...I think it is safe to assume the intent is not to muddy the waters.
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Let me be clear about what I asked Dave to do:

I want a Phase III Tyranid list that would have had little-to-no contact with any of the races from our galaxy; a first contact list. I shared input I received from Zombocom with Dave and let him do as he wished.

So this list should be in that type of theme. Genestealers are fine for the list. Points can vary from the 9.2.1 list. If possible rules can be streamlined. Drop rules are something we need to work on but can exist as optional or as part of supplement scenarios.

The resolute rule being used is what we came up with for Indomitable.

Rather than confuse everyone, why not accept the Indomitable rule that can be found in the Death Guard list.

Seems silly to use the rule that shares the ability with Death Guard and the name with the Dvergatal?

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I really would like to see a Tyranid drop list placed forward...

I am also in the camp with E&C, Zombo and Chroma for their views on this one. I think it would be better to come out with the phase 3 list rather than a 9.2.1 list with a few house-rules to not use certain list rules.

It is conceivable that an amoeba could be travelling through space with no direction or call (as in the cult elements people are referring to) and the hive has de/evolved in it's own survival cycle.

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I'd say that if we are going for a first contact list (essentially Behemoth, right?), we'd restrict ourselves to the units present before 3rd edition, correct? With the recent ret-con, we'll have Hierodules, but nothing larger than that. That will leave us with the Tyrant, Zoanthropes, Lictors, Genestealers, Warriors, Termagants ('hunter-slayers'), Hormagaunts, Rippers (grabber-slashers?), Zoats, Gargoyles, Biovores, Carnifexes and Hierodules. Since Zoes were with nids in their very first incarnation, I don't think that we can drop them. Biovores, maybe, they were introduced in 2nd ed, but I can't be sure if they were ever mentioned as being in Behemoth. Zoats, grabber-slashers and the genestealer cult would all serve to unique-ify the list, but the question is, do we want these oddballs in? Would this perhaps be an all spore drop list?

Indeed it is worth noting that first contact was with Hive Fleet Behemoth.

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May be worth looking at this post (1st entry before it went off track a bit)
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=16913&start=0
Its an attempt to work out when the various tyranid creatures first appeared (before the recent new codex).

Hierodules (both types), Trygon, Meiotic Spore and Malanthrope are all Hamman's World (Kraken tendril from Imperial Armour IV).
Text describing attacks that match up with Zoanthropes only appear associated with Kraken. Same with ranged Carnifexes.
Behemoth story specifically describes enemy titans being brought down by weight of numbers not Bio-Titans so they may have been missing (Dominatrix, Hierophant and Hydraphant are mentioned in the Kraken background). Tyrant Guard, Ravener, Biovore, Broodlord, Harridan and Assault Spawn are all mostly unknown. However the quote below suggests that Behemoth at least didn't use Biovores, Dactylis and Exocrines.

Codex Tyranids, 2nd Ed, p9 - "... (though Tyranid weapons were limited to short range projectiles and close combat weaponry) ..."

What your left with for absolute guarantee of being in Behemoth are Tyrants, Genestealers, Carnifex (Screamer), Hormagaunt, Lictor, Gargoyle, Warrior, Termagant and Ripper. (not taking into account the latest codex)

So we can assume that the units within Behemoth would be similar to this list.

My point was, why not name this list after HF Behemoth?

Alternatively, if you want the fleet that ate the Squats, I think that was a Kraken tendril.

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Sounds like there's some kind of "story secret" going on in EPIC: Xenos that's predicated on it being an "earlier contact" with the Nids.

Perhaps that the strength of the Tyranids comes from eating the hearty stock of the Squats! *laugh*

Actually i think that the Squats where eaten by Leviathan. The Squat Homeworlds all lie near the galaxy's core.

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Can we assume that Hive War is a relatively accurate account of Behemoth or was Kraken the Second Tyrannic war making Hive War accurate mainly for Kraken and only the story at the beginning of Hive War accurate for Behemoth?

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This is the last I'll say on it. My goal is to make the story and the army lists match as best we can with the information available. Sometimes that is impossible since GW has contradictions in their universe as well as changes they make along the way. I believe we have found a compelling story that fits neatly in the cracks.

Chroma is hitting it on the head; in short, I don't want to discuss 'our' fluff. When I did that with the Demiurg / Squat discussion it derailed everything we were trying to accomplish and I shelved the whole project for awhile.

I've got people to help me with Epic: Xenos and I don't mind volunteers, but let's keep the discussion here on track. It doesn't matter what fleet it came from or when it is striking. I've given the parameters of what I am looking for and you're all smart enough to keep up.

In short, I ideally would like privacy on the fluff while publicly developing the lists. Can everyone please work with me?

Sounds like someone is trying to stifle development.
Stop stifling!!

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?

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viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19085&start=15

just coming to the defense of my list-developer friend in similar fashion...

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