Varied stats for Bio-Cannons is possible and is already done.

The Dorsal Bio-Cannon on the Dominatrix and the Hierophant Bio-Cannon are the most powerful at 2xAP3+/AT4+ (Hierophant has 2)
The standard Bio-Cannon is 2xAP4+/AT5+ on the Exocrine
The Harridan and Barbed Hierodule both use Twin Bio-Cannons so gain the usual 40k to epic twin-linked bonus of +1 to both AP and AT to get 2xAP3+/AT4+ (Used to bump up the firepower but limit shots)

Barbed Hierodule could certainly become 4xAP4+/AT5+ as it does use both guns and isn't twin-linked. Similar for the Harridan but I would be wary of both those changes as the firepower increases quite significantly.

The Exocrine though will always end up with the weakest Bio-Cannon.

In my system i calculated Bio-Cannons as 45cm 2 x AP3+/AT5+ with the possibility of Macro-weapon for the AT-value.

That the Hierophant has 2 more shots over the Hierodule/Harridan doesn't matter.

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I know it is not popular, but I for one would prefer weapon stats to remain the same for the same named weapon across units. It is hard enough looking up the stats as they are, let alone remembering different stats for the same weapon.

Just an opinion...

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The same named weapon does have the same stats, it's just there are 3 Bio-Cannon variants (Normal, Dorsal and Hierophant) plus a twin(-linked) version.

Model wise it's a bit fuzzy which is why the variants.
Dominatrix - 1 Bio-Cannon
Exocrine - 1 Bio-Cannon
Barbed Hierodule - 2 Bio-Cannons
Harridan - 2 Bio-Cannons
Hierophant - 2 Bio-Cannons

I would guess based on the creature power using a universal Bio-Cannon would look like the following
Dominatrix - 1 (Twin) Bio-Cannon (Depending on base Bio-Cannon stats may require twin version)
Exocrine - 1 Bio-Cannon
Barbed Hierodule - 1 Twin Bio-Cannon
Harridan - 1 Twin Bio-Cannon
Hierophant - 2 (Twin) Bio-Cannons (Depending on base Bio-Cannon stats may require twin version)

End result with a higher powered Bio-Cannon is the Exocrine gets a minor boost and the bigger more powerful creatures get increasingly bigger boosts for having more Bio-Cannons.

I guess that's what I'm arguing then. That the base Biocannon needs better stats. I mean really, would it be such a fearsome weapon if it's weaker than a battle cannon (which it is obviously more powerful than?). It doesn't make any sense to me that it's Ap4/At5, when it should be more like Ap3 (to keep it consistent with demolishers)/At3(because it's suppsed to be good at this stuff). I can see it being AT4 though, rule wise (in 40K at least) it's a tad weaker than the Demolisher, not having the ordinance rule. Using the Apoc stats would make it something more like 2xAp3/At3 at least. 8 shots!?!

The 6 respectively 8 shots are already taken into account that the Bio-Cannon has 2 shots in Epic.

Itr has AP3+ because Strength 10 IS better than Strength 8 of the Battelcannon. Ok against most targets designated as Infantry in Epic it doesn't really matter
AT5+ ist weak but together with the Macro-weapon ability it fits. Else it should have at least AT3+.
A Demolisher has only ONE chance to penetrate a vehicles armour. The Bio Cannon has 6 or 8(!) chances to penetrate it.

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Epic Armageddon ruleset =/ Warhammer 40,000 ruleset

I'm happy with the Biocannon stats and for Tyranids not to have uber shooting, especially against tanks.
If you want awesome firepower, go play Imperial Guard.

Epic Armageddon shouldn't be, and isn't, a smaller direct translation of Warhammer 40,000, Apocalypse, Forgeworld, etc.

It uses a completely different ruleset for a reason. Ever thought that some things in the Warhammer 40,000 ruleset aren't background-accurate either? A lot of stuff in Warhammer 40,000 is abstract and skewed to allow a game where opposing armies have spaceships and city leveling lasers decide instead to have a rugby scrum in the middle of the football field size battlefield with knives, whilst long-distance artillery and helicopters sit a few metres apart spectating.

Bio-cannons do provide Tyranids with their best ranged weapons, mostly for use in preparing Engagements with Blast Markers rather than inflicting heavy damage. But the emphasis of the army list is Engagements and close-range actions, be it firepower or supporting fire.

Even in Background Bio Cannons are devastating weapons. But they are relatively rare as they are only used on the bigger WarEngine-like creatures. Very likely the Exocrines Bio Cannon would have only a single shot (can't see a Wh40k Exocrine with more than 3 or 4 attacks = shots).

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The Apocalypse rules are the only 40k reference we have.
Hierophant - 2 Bio-Cannons at 48", S10, AP3, Assault 8
Hierodule - 2 Bio-Cannons at 48", S10, AP3, Assault 6
I assume the Harridan in IA:Apocalypse is similar to the Hierodule

The Assault X is approximately correlated with the number of attacks (8 and 5 respectively). I would then put the Exocrine as
Exocrine - 1 Bio-Cannon at 48", S10, AP3, Assault 4

Assault Cannon - AP5+/AT5+
Heavy Bolter - AP5+
Lascannon - AT5+
Battle Cannon - AP4+/AT4+

Looking at probable 40k stats and existing epic weapon stats 2xAP4+/AT5+ on the Exocrine is better than a Battle Cannon in both AP and AT modes, I don't think we can expect much more. The only possible change would be splitting up the Bio-Cannons on the Hierodule and Harridan (Instead of Twin-Linked get 2 Bio-Cannons at 2xAP4+/AT5+) while keeping the Hierophant at the higher spec version (2 "Twin" Bio-Cannons at 2xAP3+/AT4+).

I can't see any valid reason to bump up the base Bio-Cannon stats as the 2nd shot is what makes it better than other weapons.

Harridan has - 2 Bio-Cannons at 48", S10, AP3, Assault 6, Twin-linked  (with Attacks 4)

I too assume 4 shots for the Exocrine but no way it has 2 shots in Epic. The Gatling Blaster has 6 template shots in Apocalyspe but only 4 shots in Epic. The Vulcan-Megabolter has 15(!) shots in Apocalypse but only 4 shots in Epic.

1 shot for the Exocrine Bio-Cannon is ok and 2 shots for the WE versions.

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I think part of the problem is the relative availablity of the standard infantry bugs versus the big-gun bugs in both 40k and E:A.

In 40k, it's easy to gather up a bunch of termagaunts, etc, but most people will never be able to buy a forgeworld model of the biggest bugs. With that in mind, it makes sense to make the big-gun bugs as shooty as possible, otherwise they really couldn't compete with the 100s of uber-stabby basic infantry models. They also provide abilities which the basic list lacks.

In E:A, there is the opposite problem. It's a lot easier to get ahold of the big-gun bugs than it is to find enough infantry to make a respectable swarm. Because that's case, and in order to discourge a no-infantry-bug-at-all-I-have-five-shooty-bugs-and-that's-it type army from being the defacto tyranid list, the guns are depowered. This allows people to play more of the units that are easy to find (the exocrines, etc) while still looking like a tyranid swarm (i.e. lots and lots of bugs on the table).

Until we find a good supply of tyranid infantry, that fact ought to be accounted for.

Well, what else do we have to go by for Biocannon stats? Nothing, so this argument seems pointless to me in this case.

Also, asking for at least +1 to the AT value of 1 gun is not too awesome, Exorcrines aren't going to make the list. If that was the case, why have Leman Russ Companies?

Here some background fluff about the Exocrine from "Hive War":
"The Exocrine fires high velocity chitin shells, wich with the aid of their silicon based penetrator core can punch through even Titan armour with shocking ease. The tremendous velocity of these projectiles is achieved by a surge of isometric muscle tissue that cover the head frill as it is raised and is realesed when the frill is depressed again.
Metallic residue found in the chitin shells suggest an electromagnetic impetus given the shot its final burst of acceleration, probably achieved with adapted nerve bundles lining the bio-cannon. The shells are simple but deadly, the velocity of their arrival at the target shattering them into a cloud of lethal shrapnel as they strike. The shells also contain an acidic slime-fungus which replicates rapidly and causes severe damage to complex systems. Because of this, Exocrine bio-cannons hits add +1 to damage rolls against Titans and other targets that use ahit location template."

Here the fluff about Bio-Titan Bio-Cannons:
"Bio-Titans commonly carry large triple-orificed symbiote weapons which appear to function in a similar manner to the bio-cannon mounted on an Exocrine. The ehavy cords of muscle that ridge the barrels of the cannon accelerate its ammunition f chitin shells to a speed at which they punch through armour as if it were cardboard. A hardened penetrator core at the centre of the shell penetrates the target in a small explosion of shrapnel and carries the spores of a pernicious slime fungus into it. Large targets stat sustain bio-cannon hit are often rotten from the inside out within minutes."

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I can't see how bumping up the shooting abilities of Bio-Cannons will result in seeing more big bugs. All the big bugs are Uncommon (So limited), Independent (So limited) or straight limited (Dom at 0-1). Harridans, Hierophants and the Dominatrix are already popular and any changes to a Bio-Cannon won't change that, if anything the accompanying points increase will mean there are less big bugs.

I agree with BL that the Exocrine should probably drop to 1 shot but it would need a major hike in stats to un-nid like levels and a points drop, as it stands now it only needs a minor points reduction (2 for 150pts to 3 for 175pts).

The Hierophant, Dominatrix and Harridan are about the right points level. Exocrine as a above needs a minor change and the Barbed Hierodule is the only problem due to it being a WE so only seeing use as Dominatrix guards (Not weapons or points related).

Could the Bio-Cannon be improved? Probably
Should the Bio-Cannon be improved? Probably more effort than it's worth.

Do not forget that there was a previous Epic incarnation of Tyranids where most of the bigger bugs were introduced in the first place. As for the older "slugs", that is when they all showed up.

I am not in any way defending Exocrines, I recently started a thread saying: "these guys s**k, what to do about it?". I pointed in several directions and apparently something will be done about them in the next update.

My point (and Jeridian's I presume) is that 40K weapon stats in no way have to translate into Epic unit stats. I would like to keep the distinction between weapon and unit alive. It is not the same thing. If Exocrines went to 3 for 175, it would be an option for direct BM-laying with quite a good chance of killing something. In my opinion, Exocrines suffer far worse from coming 2/brood than their somewhat disappointing AT value, because at the moment they are hard to combine with Synapse in a synergetic way and are extremely prone to suppression.

Furthermore, E:A does not have to follow 40K. Orks is a brilliant example where the design philosophy of E:A runs contradictory to 40K. A well construed list with a good, clear design philosophy (Orks, we do not care what other people call our shooty stuff and rides/Tyranids rely on engagements) can be much more entertaining than a 40K/Ctrl C/Epic/Ctrl V.

/Fredmans

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