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[OLD] Tyranids v9.2!

 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:08 am 
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Well thanks for giving that some consideration and well thought out discussion.  :sus:


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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:02 am 
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You'd make a terrible WFB/40k codex writer, Hena :))


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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:24 am 
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Chroma, as I said in my previous post, I think the list is going in the right direction with this version. The LV change is controversial but it's probably not as big as nerf as it seems : it just encourages the Tyranid player to mix-n-match units type in his swarms. Not a bad thing IMO.



Many people seem to focus on the "nerfs", but there are MANY boosts and/or positive things in this version:

- Swarms no longer "instanly" disappear if they lose their synapses, the 'nid player now has a chance to rush a synapse to the rescue before the end of the turn.  :laugh:

- Engage and Rally have become easier. This is a very important boost.

- Gaunts are no longer a liability in assault (or at least less than before!).

- Nids now ignore dangerous terrain, special terrain features excepted.

- Nids can spawn when taking a Hold action.

- Nids have access to Tunnelers > another deep-striking formation to relieve the pressure on the main swarm.

- There's now a real incentive to play Raveners (shields for the TW and FF5+) and Zoanthropes (shields AND Leaders). Also, with more LVs around, Biovores become more playable as well.

- With Zoanthropes, the 'nids have now access to multiple Leaders in their Swarms. It makes removing that last, annoying BM that much easier.

- The Assault Spawn are now faster. With a Winged Tyrant, you now have a resilient and deadly formation moving at 25cm.

- The Trygon now has a distinct role in the list, as does the Vituperator (it's no longer just a big Harridan).




So, yes, the TW are now Light Vehicles and thus more fragile (also, I just noticed the Malefactor is now only 5+RA. I guess this helps making the Haruspex more attractive). But come on, the list has received a boost, not a nerf!



I have a few gripes, though :  :))

- Subterranean swarm: I think the base swarm should be "1 Trygon + X Raveners", with no Trygon upgrade, only the option to add more Raveners.

- Common Broods: they are now VERY expensive and even though they've received a boost, they feel too expensive. I still don't understand why the Gargoyle now costs 33 pts per stand instead of 25 pts before. I'd suggest these prices:

*** Gargoyle Flock > 4 Gargoyles for 100 points
*** Gaunt Cluster > 4 Gaunts for 100 points
*** Ravener Cluster > 3 Raveners for 100 points

IF Games Workshop ever releases a Tyranid sprue with only 3 stands of each unit on the sprue, I don't think people are going to buy only 1 sprue, Chroma.  :laugh: All the more so because you couldn't make a 'nid army with one sprue, you'd have to buy several anyway because Common broods are the core of the army . So please don't let that possibility dictate the shape of the army list.

Anyway, I can't wait to give the list a try!

One last word : I think Carnifex are fine with armour 3+.  :))





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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:05 pm 
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I'm in favor of a Subterranean swarm with 1 Trygon as a base as well, although I think additional Trygons should be allowed to give more options to avoid a popcorn formation.

Common brood are definitely very expensive now. I believe the Gargoyles got the adjustment because their spawn value went down.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:16 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 25 Feb. 2009, 14:05 )

I'm in favor of a Subterranean swarm with 1 Trygon as a base as well, although I think additional Trygons should be allowed to give more options to avoid a popcorn formation.

Common brood are definitely very expensive now. I believe the Gargoyles got the adjustment because their spawn value went down.

I didn't want to base the Sub-Swarm on the Trygon to avoid War Engine spam, but I'll look at it in the next evolution.

Common brood are definitely very expensive now. I believe the Gargoyles got the adjustment because their spawn value went down.


And, just to let everyone know, the Common Clutches will be going back up to four units... without a point change.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:24 pm 
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As I'm currently building up a Nid army it's interesting to see the direction the army list is going in. I have a few comments but not having played the army yet they'll be mostly thematic.

Some already mentioned I agree with are gargoyle/gaunt point costs are a little high, a trygon should lead the sub swarm (maybe a trygon + 3 ravener with no additional trygons) and hormagaunts with First Strike and +1A isn't really a hormagaunt anymore.

Warriors as LV I can see why as there isn't a heavy infantry designation but Ogryns, Nobz and Wraithguard are all Inf. Regardless of the reasons why they are vulnerable to sniping so need other LV's with them. I may be a little naive on list building but my temptation is to use Hive Tyrants as primary synapse in gaunt swarms with warriors and zoanthropes as shields.

Zoanthropes appear a little bit too common with all the add options, wouldn't warriors fit those roles thematically.

Finally gargoyle bio-plasma appears to have no influence. Statwise they're flying termagants but wouldn't bio-plasma give them an edge. Usually a base contact weapon provides a bonus to CC value, extra attacks or an ability like First Strike. It doesn't appear to do anything so could probably be removed.

Keep up the good work


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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:27 pm 
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Quote: (arkturas @ 25 Feb. 2009, 09:24 )

Finally gargoyle bio-plasma appears to have no influence. Statwise they're flying termagants but wouldn't bio-plasma give them an edge. Usually a base contact weapon provides a bonus to CC value, extra attacks or an ability like First Strike. It doesn't appear to do anything so could probably be removed.

I'm not the only one Chroma!

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:28 pm 
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Quote: (arkturas @ 25 Feb. 2009, 14:24 )

Keep up the good work

Welcome to the Swarm, arkturas!

Your points are well taken... and we'd love to see pics of your Bugs!

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:35 pm 
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I suspect someone has asked this, but I didn't see it when I skimmed the thread.

Are you supposed to be able to take Zoas as both Synapse and Brood?  If so, it seems potentially confusing to me.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ 25 Feb. 2009, 14:35 )

I suspect someone has asked this, but I didn't see it when I skimmed the thread.

Are you supposed to be able to take Zoas as both Synapse and Brood?  If so, it seems potentially confusing to me.

It's been asked and answered... the Zoey Broods should be removed.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Chroma said them being an uncommon brood was a typo.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:51 am 
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Chroma, I have to apologise. After giving it some thought, it was quite arrogant of me to proclaim alternative point costs for the v9.2 list without even giving it a try. And I even miscalculated the new cost for Gaunts!  :vo  I also assumed you made a mistake with the "3 spawn points per 1 DC" entry for WE spawning. I should have thought that you knew what you were doing and that you probably wanted to prevent massive WE respawning. Sorry! It was an overreaction to the Warriors as LV change. I got carried away. It really is a change worth to be tried out. And as we can see from your battle report, it does not kill neither Warriors nor Gaunts as a unit, but simply promotes a "combined arms" swarm which feels more like a diverse 40k army transfered to Epic than a single minded Gaunt horde.

At this point I 'd like to thank you and everybody who worked on the Tyranid army list for the last few years: You did a great job and came a long way! When I started playing Epic: Armageddon nearly two years ago, I did so because I saw it as THE best set of rules GW had ever released and as one of the best tactical wargame rules I have ever read. I really liked three core elements of the rules: Alternating activations (What a fresh breeze after years of 40k's "my turn - your turn" / "I hope I get the first shooting phase"!), choosing an action for each formation to carry out (Yay! Many tactical choices.) and Blast Markes (Simply brilliant!). I then read through the army lists presented at the Specialist Games site and stumbled upon the following sentence in the Tyranid list: "Tyranid formations never receive Blast markers and, therefore, can never be suppressed or broken by them." I hated it. This rule made me really hate the Tyranids as an army, because it completely threw out one of the three core elements which make the game so great. I am so glad you got rid of it and brought the Tyranids foward, making it one of my favorite lists today. Thanks!


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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:57 am 
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Seconded. After playing against one of the early versions of the rules I never wanted to be in the same room with an Epic tyranid player - ignore all BM, advance/double forward, spawn etc ad tedium.

Now that I have an army to play with I can't wait to get these guys scurrying across the board.

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 Post subject: [OLD] Tyranids v9.2!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:17 pm 
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I think the zoanthrope needs some alteration in terms of availability. They could potentially be more common than warriors.

I'd consider allowing more warriors to be taken (Add 0-X per synapse swarm like how the zoanthropes are listed) and demote zoanthropes to uncommon broods again but retaining leader and synapse. You buy the zoanthrope brood but can split them up however you like between the synapse swarms, so buy 3 (as 1 uncommon brood) but put 2 in an assault group and 1 in an attack group.

Something to think about as I don't thnk they should be more common than warriors (although the speed is a limiting factor).


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