Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15020		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  vanvlak [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
Hi all,
I need some assistance from all of you, namely:
1 - feedback on Epicomp 2008 - how it was run, categories, delays etc. But not on the models themselves, unless this is directly relevant to Epicomp.
2 - suggestions for FAQs on Epicomp - not the 2008 edition, but for future editions.
Any feedback and questions will be answered or discussed here for now, but in the future (and before EPICOMP 2009) I'll set up a FAQ thread.

cheers, and thanks.  :vD
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
My main question for the FAQ would be this:

"How can any other participant reasonably be expected to compete with Warmaster Nice?"

:))
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
Now, on  serious note, would it be possible to run the contest *without* names, just the pictures, submitted directly to you instead of people posting them to the forums?
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
Quote: (Chroma @ 03 Mar. 2009, 12:00 )

Now, on  serious note, would it be possible to run the contest *without* names, just the pictures, submitted directly to you instead of people posting them to the forums?

That's a really good idea. I'll admit that I purposely voted against Warmaster Nice because I had voted for him in other heats/categories.
Author:  Warmaster Nice [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
I'll try and limit my ammount of submissions next year  :))

The anonymous submission might be a good idea. It is a bit of extra work on behalf of the mods. Obviously the focus should be on the miniatures and not the submitter. I was a bit surprised that some very good submissions did not make it to the finals this year. This is of course partially due to the heats where some had harder competition than others. Still I can't help but think that people may (subconciously or not) sometimes vote for forum regulars instead of newcomers.

I don't know if a solution might be to shuffle the entries instead of just having heats divided in the chronology in which the entries were submitted? Some entries are obviously better than others and it may be a bit unfair that some heats have many very good entries competing while others have less good entries, which will be voted out of the finals quickly.

Another idea might be that if an entrant wins severeal categories te prizes he does not choose are forwarded to next year's comp. With even bigger prizes that should give people a bit extra incentive to outdo themselves.

The final point is classification of models: Greater Daemons, Giant Squiggoths, Lord of Battles, large flyers etc. have often caused problems. I'm not completely sure what can be done. I'm not sure specifying which ruleset to use is the way to go (not all models are represented under all rulesets). However to avoid problems like this year's greater daemon entry (which was a very nicely painted model) perhaps the submission deadline is also the latest deadline Mods are allowed to shuffle entries between cateogries? Changing categories once the voting has started inevitably causes some problems. I think it also happened in 2007 where the heat winner changed because of it. Better let a misplaced entry finish in the wrong category than restaring heats IMO.

Anyway: Just my random thoughts: Not critizising anyone, mod, entry or entrant. Just suggesting areas where we might improve the system :)
Author:  vanvlak [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
Quote: (Chroma @ 03 Mar. 2009, 17:59 )

My main question for the FAQ would be this:

"How can any other participant reasonably be expected to compete with Warmaster Nice?"

:))

Simple.
We can set up a Warmaster Nice category, in which entries can only be submitted by (a) Warmaster Nice or (b) insanely good modellers/painters or © merely insane modellers/painters.
And Warmaster Nice can give the prize for ths category  :devil:  :devil:
Author:  vanvlak [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
Anon entries - sounds good, and is already being considered  :blues:
Shuffling: could work, if it's not too much trouble for CS who sets up the galleries.
Prizes carried forward - not so certain - you would have to make sure the prizegiver is around the year after; and it would probably not be fair on 'corporate' prizegivers who provide prizes from their own range of models.

Categories - tell me about it.  :sulk:  :_(
I am really open to suggestions on this one.
Author:  Onyx [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
The voting in heats system throws up some odd results. There's no way that my 'It's Broken' objective deserved to be in the final against WMN's Airship. The Iron Warriors transport and the Ad Mech Manufactorum (and other entrant's works aswell) would have provided for a more intersesting final round (certainly wouldn't have changed the result though).

I spose the only option in this case is to do away with the Heats and just put all entries into one catagory. This would work much better if it was possible to have say 3 votes each - 5pts for you favorite entry, 3 for the next and 1 for another (or something like that).

It's a bit simpler in that it's only one round but the different grade of votes could make for a few interesting outcomes (and many voter this year, me included, mentioned that they would like to vote for more than one entry per catagory) whilst generally rewarding the most popular entry in the end.

I'm sure this would be harder to set up but might give a more accurate resolution in the end.

I fully support annon entries but what about those that don't have time or money to make a display piece just for the comp. They may have shown pictures of the work during the year and then decide to enter one of their gaming pieces when the comp rolls around. I know this is how it is for me. It would not feel right to penalise someone because they've already diplayed their work on the forums. I don't think it should be a prerequisite of entry (not having shown the minis before) but I think it would still be good to put the entries up without names for the voting.

I do think all prizes from a competition should be given away. Holding over prizes to the next comp could just end up with the same person reaping many large rewards and no-one else getting anything and that wouldn't look good.

Steve.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
A quick note on the heat system. This came about because I wanted voting to be conducted on these boards, and the maximum poll size is currently 10 for each vote (it used to be 9).

I am not saying that this is the best method, but that is why we currently have it.
Author:  netepic [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
Quote: (CyberShadow @ 05 Mar. 2009, 10:20 )

A quick note on the heat system. This came about because I wanted voting to be conducted on these boards, and the maximum poll size is currently 10 for each vote (it used to be 9).

I am not saying that this is the best method, but that is why we currently have it.

Any chance I could assist with a bit of code fiddling? Up the max number of votes for you? I don't have a tremendous amount of free time, but altering a few scripts shouldn't take me longer than a night - weekend at max.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
I could probably have a quick fiddle myself....  :oh:

If we do decide that one big heat is the way forwards, I am sure that there is a way around this. However, I am not sure that this would be a great solution, having to vote for one out of (potentially) 45 pictures.
Author:  Steve54 [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
I'll be interested to see if all the prizes materialise
Author:  Onyx [ Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
Quote: (CyberShadow @ 06 Mar. 2009, 18:55 )

I could probably have a quick fiddle myself....  :oh:

If we do decide that one big heat is the way forwards, I am sure that there is a way around this. However, I am not sure that this would be a great solution, having to vote for one out of (potentially) 45 pictures.

Thats why I suggested a person getting 3 votes to use (5pts, 3pts and 1pt).
This would obviously entail a change to way votes are given...

I agree that having to chose only one out of (up to) 45 entries would not be desirable.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
So, this would mean three 'heats' all identical, containing all (for example) 45 submission in each. Every person could vote on each 'heat', the first for 5 points, the second for 3 points and the third for a single point (as first, second and third choice).

Is this the proposal?
Author:  Onyx [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  EPICOMP 2008 - feedback
I think the catagories should still exist (War Engines, Single stand, DRM, EW and Open) but all entries in each catagory would be voted on in one seperate heat.

Each voter would have 3 votes to place in each of the catagories - 5pts for their favourite entry, 3 for the next and 1 for another. That way it's not all or nothing. Leave it open for a month (or maybe just a couple of weeks) and then once it's closed, you should have a winner in each catagory.
Draws could be worked out by whoever got the most 5pt votes.

I haven't really put too much thought into this and I have no idea about the technical side of things. This idea might be quicker and simpler to run (once set up) and should avoid odd situations like the Open catagory final in the last comp.
It could also help with situations of the same person winning multiple catagories as you should have a clear 2nd, 3rd etc in each catagory to award runner up prizes (as essentially, everyone is in the final round).

For example:
There are 10 entries into the War Engine catagory.
I place 5pts to my favourite WE, 3 to my next favourite and 1 to my 3rd place entry.
Everyone else does the same thing and after a period of time, we hopefully have a clear winner with the highest number of points.

Rinse and repeat with the other catagories at the same time.

You could change it to 3pts for your 1st vote, 2 for the 2nd and 1 for the 3rd and you would get an even closer finish at the end.

Steve.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/