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Points formula values for Tyranid http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=173&t=28108 |
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Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:20 am ] |
Post subject: | Points formula values for Tyranid |
Updated for most recent version of the formula (V0.46) ____ Model or Formation name _ V0.46 Cost _ vs 0.43 _ vs Gold _ Tyranid Ripper: _____________ 10.848 ___ -1.914 __ +0.848 Gargoyle: ___________ 34.157 ___ +0.901 __ +4.157 Genestealer: ________ 22.799 __ -15.698 _ -12.2 G. Cultist: _________ 13.445 ___ -1.121 __ -1.545 Hormagaunt: __________ 9.815 ___ -1.732 _ -10.18 Lictor: _____________ 52.205 __ -22.604 _ +12.205 Termagant: __________ 10.393 ___ -0.866 __ -4.607 Tyranid Warrior: ____ 47.84 ____ -8.409 __ +7.84 Zoat: _______________ 39.244 __ -13.08 ___ -0.756 Ravener: ____________ 28.868 ___ -9.52 __ -11.13 Carnifex: ___________ 47.286 ___ -6.495 _ +12.286 Hive Tyrant: _______ 116.19 ___ -29.859 _ +51.188 Winged Tyrant: _____ 126.59 ___ -33.881 _ +26.588 Zoanthrope: _________ 79.676 ___ -0.866 _ +44.676 Brooder: ____________ 45.882 ___ -2.872 __ -4.118 Exocrine: ___________ 81.466 ___ +0.866 __ -3.534 Haruspex: ___________ 59.584 ___ -6.062 __ -5.416 Malefactor: _________ 62.095 __ -10.104 _ +12.095 Mycetic Spore: _____ 172.66 _____ 0 ____ +162.66 Biovore: ____________ 58.776 ___ +0.289 __ -6.224 Dactlys: ___________ 106.49 ____ +1.155 _ +41.49 Hive Queen: ________ 449.48 ___ -68.25 __ +299.48 Razorfex: __________ 139.26 ___ -16.628 __ +74.26 Scythed Hierodule: _ 406.46 __ -217.23 __ +106.46 Dominatrix: _______ 1144 ______ -29.25 ___ +644.16 Harridan: __________ 443.88 ___ -12.334 __ +293.88 Trygon: ____________ 389.14 ___ -16.166 __ +289.14 Hierodule: _________ 1194 __ -143.52 __ +794.06 Hierophant: ________ 1863 __ -150.7 __ +1338 _ Tyranid Formations _ Synapse (Company) Dominatrix: ________ 1144 __ -29 __ +644 Hive Queen: _________ 449 __ -68 __ +299 Hive Tyrant: ________ 271 __ -70 ___ +71 Harridan: ___________ 444 __ -12 __ +294 Winged Tyrant: ______ 127 __ -33 ___ +27 Tyranid Warrior: ____ 184 __ -32 ___ -16 _ Slave (Support) Ripper: ______________ 81 __ -15 ___ -19 Gargoyle: ___________ 130 ___ +4 ___ -20 Genestealer: _________ 87 __ -59 ___ -88 G. Cultist: __________ 61 ___ -5 ___ -39 Hormagaunt: __________ 37 ___ -7 ___ -63 Lictor: _____________ 198 __ -86 ____ -2 Termagant: ___________ 78 ___ -6 ___ -72 Zoat: _______________ 149 __ -50 ___ -51 Ravener: ____________ 110 __ -36 ___ -90 Carnifex: ___________ 110 __ -15 ___ +10 Zoanthrope: _________ 186 ___ -2 ___ +86 Brooder: ____________ 107 ___ -7 ___ -43 Exocrine: ___________ 190 ___ +2 ___ -60 Haruspex: ___________ 139 __ -14 ___ -61 Malefactor: _________ 145 __ -23 ____ -5 Mycetic Spores: each_ 130 ____ 0 __ +120 Biovore: ____________ 137 ___ +1 ___ -63 Dactlys: ____________ 248 ___ +2 ___ +48 Razorfex: ___________ 325 __ -39 __ +125 Scythed Hierodule: __ 406 _ -218 __ +106 Trygon: _____________ 389 __ -16 __ +289 Hierodule +3Wpns: __ 1194 __ -144 __ +794 Hierodule Brood +9W: 3582 __ -431 _ +2382 Hierophant +4Wpns: _ 1863 __ -150 _ +1338 Hierophant Brd +12W: 5588 __ -452 _ +4013 _ Bio-Titan Weapons: Bile Launcher: _______ 98 _____ 0 ___ +23 Bio-Cannon: _________ 194 _____ 0 __ +119 Cluster Spines: ______ 58 _____ 0 ___ +33 Pryo-Acid Spray: ____ 162 __ -168 __ +112 Razor Claw: __________ 20 _____ 0 ___ -30 Ripper Tentacles: ____ 47 _____ 0 ___ -28 Spore Pods: __________ 19 _____ 0 ____ -6 Stinger Salvo: _______ 32 _____ 0 ____ +7 Sample Army ______ v046 __ 043 ___ Gold -- The Eastern Menace (pdf p7) Dominatrix CP6 __ 1144 _ 1173 __ 500 -S Haruspex ______ 139 __ 153 __ 200 -S Exocrine ______ 190 __ 188 __ 250 -S Dactylis ______ 248 __ 246 __ 200 -S Biovore _______ 137 __ 136 __ 200 -S Trygon ________ 389 __ 405 __ 100 -S Ripper _________ 81 ___ 96 __ 100 Hive Tyrant CP3 __ 271 __ 341 __ 200 -S Termagant ______ 78 ___ 84 __ 150 -S Hormagaunt _____ 37 ___ 44 __ 100 -S Genestealer ____ 87 __ 146 __ 150 Hive Queen CP3 ___ 449 __ 518 __ 150 -S Ripper _________ 81 ___ 96 __ 100 -S Ripper _________ 81 ___ 96 __ 100 -S Lictor ________ 198 __ 284 __ 200 Harridan CP1 _____ 444 __ 456 __ 150 -S Gargoyle ______ 130 __ 126 __ 150 --- Totals _____ 4187 _ 4589 _ 3000 |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:07 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
Tweaks done. _ Tyranid __________ Base __ Tweaked Ripper: _____________ 14 ______ 16 Gargoyle: ___________ 50 ______ 52.5 Genestealer: ________ 33 ______ 45 G. Cultist: _________ 12 ______ 11.5 Hormagaunt: _________ 14 ______ 16 Lictor: _____________ 85 ______ 94 Termagant: __________ 12 ______ 11.5 Tyranid Warrior: ____ 60 ______ 55.5 Zoat: _______________ 45 ______ 49 Ravener: ____________ 36 ______ 42 Carnifex: ___________ 62.6 ____ 68.15 Hive Tyrant: _______ 103 _____ 121 Winged Tyrant: _____ 113 _____ 144.5 Zoanthrope: _________ 78.33 ___ 47.83 Brooder: ____________ 66 ______ 63 Exocrine: __________ 184.1 ____ 76.05 Haruspex: ___________ 72 ______ 67 Malefactor: _________ 72.08 ___ 76.08 Mycetic Spore: ______ 39 ______ 39 Biovore: ___________ 308 _____ 164 Dactlys: ___________ 125.1 ____ 84.55 Hive Queen: ________ 311.5 ___ 504.5 Razorfex: __________ 152 _____ 294 Scythed Hierodule: _ 455.7 ___ 447.4 Dominatrix: ________ 800.8 _ 738.8 Harridan: __________ 352 ___ 325 Trygon: ____________ 147.6 _ 185.8 Hierodule: _________ 534 ___ 914 Hierophant: ________ 873.5_ 1378 _ Tyranid Formations ____________________ Base ___ Tweaked _ Synapse (Company) Dominatrix: ________ 1170 _____ 1080 Hive Queen: _________ 455 ______ 740 Hive Tyrant: ________ 300 ______ 355 Harridan: ___________ 475 ______ 435 Winged Tyrant: ______ 165 ______ 210 Tyranid Warrior: ____ 240 ______ 225 _ Slave (Support) Ripper: ______________ 90 ______ 100 Gargoyle: ___________ 175 ______ 180 Genestealer: ________ 150 ______ 200 G. Cultist: __________ 55 _______ 50 Hormagaunt: __________ 50 _______ 55 Lictor: _____________ 380 ______ 420 Termagant: ___________ 70 _______ 65 Zoat: _______________ 200 ______ 220 Ravener: ____________ 125 ______ 145 Carnifex: ___________ 145 ______ 155 Zoanthrope: _________ 180 ______ 110 Brooder: ____________ 170 ______ 160 Exocrine: ___________ 425 ______ 175 Haruspex: ___________ 165 ______ 155 Malefactor: _________ 165 ______ 175 Mycetic Spores: 31.7 per spore, round to nearest 5 (5 would be 160, 10 would be 315, etc) Biovore: ____________ 710 ______ 380 Dactlys: ____________ 290 ______ 195 Razorfex: ___________ 350 ______ 680 Scythed Hierodule: __ 680 ______ 670 Trygon: _____________ 170 ______ 215 Hierodule +3Wpns: ___ 800 _____ 1365 Hierodule Brood +9W: 2400 _____ 4100 Hierophant +4Wpns: _ 1305 _____ 2060 Hierophant Brd +12W: 3915 _____ 6180 _ Bio-Titan Weapons: Bile Launcher: ______ 180 _______ 70 Bio-Cannon: _________ 160 _______ 40 Cluster Spines: ______ 95 _______ 50 Pryo-Acid Spray: ____ 385 ______ 190 Razor Claw: __________ 20 _______ 15 Ripper Tentacles: ____ 70 _______ 20 Spore Pods: _________ 215 ______ 110 Stinger Salvo: _______ 55 _______ 15 |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
Updated for tweak2. _ Tyranid ________ Tweak2 Ripper: _____________ 16 Gargoyle: ___________ 53 Genestealer: ________ 45 G. Cultist: _________ 12 Hormagaunt: _________ 16 Lictor: _____________ 93 Termagant: __________ 12 Tyranid Warrior: ____ 57.5 Zoat: _______________ 49 Ravener: ____________ 44 Carnifex: ___________ 68.3 Hive Tyrant: _______ 122.5 Winged Tyrant: _____ 146 Zoanthrope: _________ 56.67 Brooder: ____________ 61 Exocrine: __________ 107.1 Haruspex: ___________ 66.5 Malefactor: _________ 74.08 Mycetic Spore: ______ 36 Biovore: ___________ 233 Dactlys: ____________ 99.8 Hive Queen: ________ 508.5 Razorfex: __________ 295 Scythed Hierodule: _ 505.5 Dominatrix: ________ 925.6 Harridan: __________ 338 Trygon: ____________ 181.7 Hierodule: _________ 856.8 Hierophant: _______ 1252 _ Tyranid Formations ___________________ Tweaked _ Synapse (Company) Dominatrix: ________ 1354 Hive Queen: _________ 744 Hive Tyrant: ________ 358 Harridan: ___________ 455 Winged Tyrant: ______ 214 Tyranid Warrior: ____ 232 _ Slave (Support) Ripper: _____________ 102 Gargoyle: ___________ 184 Genestealer: ________ 202 G. Cultist: __________ 54 Hormagaunt: __________ 55 Lictor: _____________ 417 Termagant: ___________ 69 Zoat: _______________ 220 Ravener: ____________ 150 Carnifex: ___________ 158 Zoanthrope: _________ 131 Brooder: ____________ 156 Exocrine: ___________ 247 Haruspex: ___________ 154 Malefactor: _________ 171 Mycetic Spores: 29.25 per spore (5 would be 146, 10 would be 293, etc) Biovore: ____________ 538 Dactlys: ____________ 230 Razorfex: ___________ 681 Scythed Hierodule: __ 756 Trygon: _____________ 210 Hierodule +3Wpns: __ 1281 Hierodule Brood +9W: 3843 Hierophant +4Wpns: _ 1872 Hierophant Brd +12W: 5616 _ Bio-Titan Weapons: Bile Launcher: ______ 108 Bio-Cannon: __________ 81 Cluster Spines: ______ 72 Pryo-Acid Spray: ____ 288 Razor Claw: __________ 21 Ripper Tentacles: ____ 39 Spore Pods: _________ 161 Stinger Salvo: _______ 27 |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Sat May 02, 2015 7:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
OP updated. |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Mon May 18, 2015 6:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
OP updated for adjustments to weapons using templates. |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
OP updated for V0.33 |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:59 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
OP updated to V0.34 (Hit Location system revision) |
Author: | primarch [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
Hi! The pyro-acid spray weapon for bio-titans is very expensive in regards to what it can usually accomplish in a game. May need a review. Primarch |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
Well, that is an odd one. Specifically, it uses an oddly shaped template. It is mostly a large Teardrop, but also has extra bulges to each side. As I recall, each bulge is essentially half of a standard 6cm barrage template, thus the cost of the Pyro-Acid Spray template is the sum of the costs of a Large Teardrop and a 6cm Barrage. This would be 15 + 3.6 = 18.6. Hmm, it seems I do have a minor error in this calculation, as I have that value in as 19. Ah, right, I had been rounding off the 3.6 to 4 at the beginning of the formula, but changed that a while ago. I guess this did not get updated. Also, the weapon hits on a 3+ with a TSM of -2, Ignores Cover, and Damages Buildings. It IS a strong weapon. Still, adjusting for the above error, it's cost is thus (Template * 3+ * -2 * Ignore Cover * Damage Building = 18.6 * 2 * 3 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 251.1) 251. Adjusting that for Morale and Hive Mind adjustments brings it to 375.39 which rounds to 375. Thus the cost of the weapon is now 375. I don't see how that can be adjusted without either changing the stats of the weapon or changing the weight of various modifiers. Of course, the latter would mean adjusting all weapons as needed, but if it needs adjusting then it needs adjusting. |
Author: | primarch [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
MagnusIlluminus wrote: Well, that is an odd one. Specifically, it uses an oddly shaped template. It is mostly a large Teardrop, but also has extra bulges to each side. As I recall, each bulge is essentially half of a standard 6cm barrage template, thus the cost of the Pyro-Acid Spray template is the sum of the costs of a Large Teardrop and a 6cm Barrage. This would be 15 + 3.6 = 18.6. Hmm, it seems I do have a minor error in this calculation, as I have that value in as 19. Ah, right, I had been rounding off the 3.6 to 4 at the beginning of the formula, but changed that a while ago. I guess this did not get updated. Also, the weapon hits on a 3+ with a TSM of -2, Ignores Cover, and Damages Buildings. It IS a strong weapon. Still, adjusting for the above error, it's cost is thus (Template * 3+ * -2 * Ignore Cover * Damage Building = 18.6 * 2 * 3 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 251.1) 251. Adjusting that for Morale and Hive Mind adjustments brings it to 375.39 which rounds to 375. Thus the cost of the weapon is now 375. I don't see how that can be adjusted without either changing the stats of the weapon or changing the weight of various modifiers. Of course, the latter would mean adjusting all weapons as needed, but if it needs adjusting then it needs adjusting. Hi! Why not treat it as a large teardrop template and ignore the extra "bulges"? Its not like there are any others like it and perhaps it is better to keep all templates in strict silos (small teardrop, large teardrop, small round template, etc) and approximate "odd" ones to the nearest standard size. That way we still have uniformity and consistency without having to deal with oddities like this particular template. Besides, I like where the barrage calculations stand as of now, I don't fancy a recalculation based on one non-standard template. Heck I would rather change the template to the standard large teardrop than recalculate (of course that may very well be the answer). If it were done that way what would the cost be? Primarch |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:50 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
The formula cannot just ignore the extra bulges as that is more area that the template covers, and thus more models that it can hit as a result. That must have a cost. I am against changing the Pyro-Acid Spray to just use the normal Large Teardrop template. Using the one that it has gives it more flavor and differentiates it from just being a flamer. Besides, the whole reason for having the formula is to allow for odd templates like this and to allow players to design their own odd templates and put fair values to them. Still, that said, if the Pyro-Acid Spray used the normal Large Teardrop template instead, it would have a value of 303. Oh, I just realized that changing the Pryo-Acid Spray also changes the Scythed Hierodule as it also uses that weapon. Using the correct value (18.6) for the existing template now gives the Scythed Hierodule a model value of 504.8 and a formation cost of 755. Changing the Spray to a Large Template changes it's model cost to 456.2 and formation cost to 682. |
Author: | primarch [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
MagnusIlluminus wrote: The formula cannot just ignore the extra bulges as that is more area that the template covers, and thus more models that it can hit as a result. That must have a cost. I am against changing the Pyro-Acid Spray to just use the normal Large Teardrop template. Using the one that it has gives it more flavor and differentiates it from just being a flamer. Besides, the whole reason for having the formula is to allow for odd templates like this and to allow players to design their own odd templates and put fair values to them. Still, that said, if the Pyro-Acid Spray used the normal Large Teardrop template instead, it would have a value of 303. Oh, I just realized that changing the Pryo-Acid Spray also changes the Scythed Hierodule as it also uses that weapon. Using the correct value (18.6) for the existing template now gives the Scythed Hierodule a model value of 504.8 and a formation cost of 755. Changing the Spray to a Large Template changes it's model cost to 456.2 and formation cost to 682. Hi! Hmm. Seems we're stuck on that one then. My memory on its effectiveness is foggy enough to set it aside until I can think over how useful it may be. I'll keep this one aside for now and perhaps revisit under the tyranid revision. Primarch |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
OP updated for V0.4 |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
OP updated to V0.41 |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Tyranid |
OP updated for V0.42 Some interesting changes here, and that's the last for V0.42. |
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