Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Points formula values for Tyranid

 Post subject: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:20 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
Updated for most recent version of the formula (V0.46)
____

Model or Formation name _ V0.46 Cost _ vs 0.43 _ vs Gold

_ Tyranid
Ripper: _____________ 10.848 ___ -1.914 __ +0.848
Gargoyle: ___________ 34.157 ___ +0.901 __ +4.157
Genestealer: ________ 22.799 __ -15.698 _ -12.2
G. Cultist: _________ 13.445 ___ -1.121 __ -1.545
Hormagaunt: __________ 9.815 ___ -1.732 _ -10.18
Lictor: _____________ 52.205 __ -22.604 _ +12.205
Termagant: __________ 10.393 ___ -0.866 __ -4.607
Tyranid Warrior: ____ 47.84 ____ -8.409 __ +7.84
Zoat: _______________ 39.244 __ -13.08 ___ -0.756

Ravener: ____________ 28.868 ___ -9.52 __ -11.13

Carnifex: ___________ 47.286 ___ -6.495 _ +12.286
Hive Tyrant: _______ 116.19 ___ -29.859 _ +51.188
Winged Tyrant: _____ 126.59 ___ -33.881 _ +26.588
Zoanthrope: _________ 79.676 ___ -0.866 _ +44.676

Brooder: ____________ 45.882 ___ -2.872 __ -4.118
Exocrine: ___________ 81.466 ___ +0.866 __ -3.534
Haruspex: ___________ 59.584 ___ -6.062 __ -5.416
Malefactor: _________ 62.095 __ -10.104 _ +12.095
Mycetic Spore: _____ 172.66 _____ 0 ____ +162.66

Biovore: ____________ 58.776 ___ +0.289 __ -6.224
Dactlys: ___________ 106.49 ____ +1.155 _ +41.49

Hive Queen: ________ 449.48 ___ -68.25 __ +299.48
Razorfex: __________ 139.26 ___ -16.628 __ +74.26
Scythed Hierodule: _ 406.46 __ -217.23 __ +106.46

Dominatrix: _______ 1144 ______ -29.25 ___ +644.16
Harridan: __________ 443.88 ___ -12.334 __ +293.88
Trygon: ____________ 389.14 ___ -16.166 __ +289.14

Hierodule: _________ 1194 __ -143.52 __ +794.06
Hierophant: ________ 1863 __ -150.7 __ +1338

_ Tyranid Formations
_ Synapse (Company)
Dominatrix: ________ 1144 __ -29 __ +644
Hive Queen: _________ 449 __ -68 __ +299
Hive Tyrant: ________ 271 __ -70 ___ +71
Harridan: ___________ 444 __ -12 __ +294
Winged Tyrant: ______ 127 __ -33 ___ +27
Tyranid Warrior: ____ 184 __ -32 ___ -16

_ Slave (Support)
Ripper: ______________ 81 __ -15 ___ -19
Gargoyle: ___________ 130 ___ +4 ___ -20
Genestealer: _________ 87 __ -59 ___ -88
G. Cultist: __________ 61 ___ -5 ___ -39
Hormagaunt: __________ 37 ___ -7 ___ -63
Lictor: _____________ 198 __ -86 ____ -2
Termagant: ___________ 78 ___ -6 ___ -72
Zoat: _______________ 149 __ -50 ___ -51

Ravener: ____________ 110 __ -36 ___ -90

Carnifex: ___________ 110 __ -15 ___ +10
Zoanthrope: _________ 186 ___ -2 ___ +86

Brooder: ____________ 107 ___ -7 ___ -43
Exocrine: ___________ 190 ___ +2 ___ -60
Haruspex: ___________ 139 __ -14 ___ -61
Malefactor: _________ 145 __ -23 ____ -5
Mycetic Spores: each_ 130 ____ 0 __ +120

Biovore: ____________ 137 ___ +1 ___ -63
Dactlys: ____________ 248 ___ +2 ___ +48

Razorfex: ___________ 325 __ -39 __ +125
Scythed Hierodule: __ 406 _ -218 __ +106

Trygon: _____________ 389 __ -16 __ +289

Hierodule +3Wpns: __ 1194 __ -144 __ +794
Hierodule Brood +9W: 3582 __ -431 _ +2382
Hierophant +4Wpns: _ 1863 __ -150 _ +1338
Hierophant Brd +12W: 5588 __ -452 _ +4013

_ Bio-Titan Weapons:
Bile Launcher: _______ 98 _____ 0 ___ +23
Bio-Cannon: _________ 194 _____ 0 __ +119
Cluster Spines: ______ 58 _____ 0 ___ +33
Pryo-Acid Spray: ____ 162 __ -168 __ +112
Razor Claw: __________ 20 _____ 0 ___ -30
Ripper Tentacles: ____ 47 _____ 0 ___ -28
Spore Pods: __________ 19 _____ 0 ____ -6
Stinger Salvo: _______ 32 _____ 0 ____ +7


Sample Army ______ v046 __ 043 ___ Gold
-- The Eastern Menace (pdf p7)
Dominatrix CP6 __ 1144 _ 1173 __ 500
-S Haruspex ______ 139 __ 153 __ 200
-S Exocrine ______ 190 __ 188 __ 250
-S Dactylis ______ 248 __ 246 __ 200
-S Biovore _______ 137 __ 136 __ 200
-S Trygon ________ 389 __ 405 __ 100
-S Ripper _________ 81 ___ 96 __ 100
Hive Tyrant CP3 __ 271 __ 341 __ 200
-S Termagant ______ 78 ___ 84 __ 150
-S Hormagaunt _____ 37 ___ 44 __ 100
-S Genestealer ____ 87 __ 146 __ 150
Hive Queen CP3 ___ 449 __ 518 __ 150
-S Ripper _________ 81 ___ 96 __ 100
-S Ripper _________ 81 ___ 96 __ 100
-S Lictor ________ 198 __ 284 __ 200
Harridan CP1 _____ 444 __ 456 __ 150
-S Gargoyle ______ 130 __ 126 __ 150
--- Totals _____ 4187 _ 4589 _ 3000

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Last edited by MagnusIlluminus on Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:28 pm, edited 13 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:07 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
Tweaks done.

_ Tyranid __________ Base __ Tweaked
Ripper: _____________ 14 ______ 16
Gargoyle: ___________ 50 ______ 52.5
Genestealer: ________ 33 ______ 45
G. Cultist: _________ 12 ______ 11.5
Hormagaunt: _________ 14 ______ 16
Lictor: _____________ 85 ______ 94
Termagant: __________ 12 ______ 11.5
Tyranid Warrior: ____ 60 ______ 55.5
Zoat: _______________ 45 ______ 49

Ravener: ____________ 36 ______ 42

Carnifex: ___________ 62.6 ____ 68.15
Hive Tyrant: _______ 103 _____ 121
Winged Tyrant: _____ 113 _____ 144.5
Zoanthrope: _________ 78.33 ___ 47.83

Brooder: ____________ 66 ______ 63
Exocrine: __________ 184.1 ____ 76.05
Haruspex: ___________ 72 ______ 67
Malefactor: _________ 72.08 ___ 76.08
Mycetic Spore: ______ 39 ______ 39

Biovore: ___________ 308 _____ 164
Dactlys: ___________ 125.1 ____ 84.55

Hive Queen: ________ 311.5 ___ 504.5
Razorfex: __________ 152 _____ 294
Scythed Hierodule: _ 455.7 ___ 447.4

Dominatrix: ________ 800.8 _ 738.8
Harridan: __________ 352 ___ 325
Trygon: ____________ 147.6 _ 185.8

Hierodule: _________ 534 ___ 914
Hierophant: ________ 873.5_ 1378

_ Tyranid Formations
____________________ Base ___ Tweaked
_ Synapse (Company)
Dominatrix: ________ 1170 _____ 1080
Hive Queen: _________ 455 ______ 740
Hive Tyrant: ________ 300 ______ 355
Harridan: ___________ 475 ______ 435
Winged Tyrant: ______ 165 ______ 210
Tyranid Warrior: ____ 240 ______ 225

_ Slave (Support)
Ripper: ______________ 90 ______ 100
Gargoyle: ___________ 175 ______ 180
Genestealer: ________ 150 ______ 200
G. Cultist: __________ 55 _______ 50
Hormagaunt: __________ 50 _______ 55
Lictor: _____________ 380 ______ 420
Termagant: ___________ 70 _______ 65
Zoat: _______________ 200 ______ 220

Ravener: ____________ 125 ______ 145

Carnifex: ___________ 145 ______ 155
Zoanthrope: _________ 180 ______ 110

Brooder: ____________ 170 ______ 160
Exocrine: ___________ 425 ______ 175
Haruspex: ___________ 165 ______ 155
Malefactor: _________ 165 ______ 175
Mycetic Spores: 31.7 per spore, round to nearest 5 (5 would be 160, 10 would be 315, etc)

Biovore: ____________ 710 ______ 380
Dactlys: ____________ 290 ______ 195

Razorfex: ___________ 350 ______ 680
Scythed Hierodule: __ 680 ______ 670

Trygon: _____________ 170 ______ 215

Hierodule +3Wpns: ___ 800 _____ 1365
Hierodule Brood +9W: 2400 _____ 4100
Hierophant +4Wpns: _ 1305 _____ 2060
Hierophant Brd +12W: 3915 _____ 6180

_ Bio-Titan Weapons:
Bile Launcher: ______ 180 _______ 70
Bio-Cannon: _________ 160 _______ 40
Cluster Spines: ______ 95 _______ 50
Pryo-Acid Spray: ____ 385 ______ 190
Razor Claw: __________ 20 _______ 15
Ripper Tentacles: ____ 70 _______ 20
Spore Pods: _________ 215 ______ 110
Stinger Salvo: _______ 55 _______ 15

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:03 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
Updated for tweak2.

_ Tyranid ________ Tweak2
Ripper: _____________ 16
Gargoyle: ___________ 53
Genestealer: ________ 45
G. Cultist: _________ 12
Hormagaunt: _________ 16
Lictor: _____________ 93
Termagant: __________ 12
Tyranid Warrior: ____ 57.5
Zoat: _______________ 49

Ravener: ____________ 44

Carnifex: ___________ 68.3
Hive Tyrant: _______ 122.5
Winged Tyrant: _____ 146
Zoanthrope: _________ 56.67

Brooder: ____________ 61
Exocrine: __________ 107.1
Haruspex: ___________ 66.5
Malefactor: _________ 74.08
Mycetic Spore: ______ 36

Biovore: ___________ 233
Dactlys: ____________ 99.8

Hive Queen: ________ 508.5
Razorfex: __________ 295
Scythed Hierodule: _ 505.5

Dominatrix: ________ 925.6
Harridan: __________ 338
Trygon: ____________ 181.7

Hierodule: _________ 856.8
Hierophant: _______ 1252

_ Tyranid Formations
___________________ Tweaked
_ Synapse (Company)
Dominatrix: ________ 1354
Hive Queen: _________ 744
Hive Tyrant: ________ 358
Harridan: ___________ 455
Winged Tyrant: ______ 214
Tyranid Warrior: ____ 232

_ Slave (Support)
Ripper: _____________ 102
Gargoyle: ___________ 184
Genestealer: ________ 202
G. Cultist: __________ 54
Hormagaunt: __________ 55
Lictor: _____________ 417
Termagant: ___________ 69
Zoat: _______________ 220

Ravener: ____________ 150

Carnifex: ___________ 158
Zoanthrope: _________ 131

Brooder: ____________ 156
Exocrine: ___________ 247
Haruspex: ___________ 154
Malefactor: _________ 171
Mycetic Spores: 29.25 per spore (5 would be 146, 10 would be 293, etc)

Biovore: ____________ 538
Dactlys: ____________ 230

Razorfex: ___________ 681
Scythed Hierodule: __ 756

Trygon: _____________ 210

Hierodule +3Wpns: __ 1281
Hierodule Brood +9W: 3843
Hierophant +4Wpns: _ 1872
Hierophant Brd +12W: 5616

_ Bio-Titan Weapons:
Bile Launcher: ______ 108
Bio-Cannon: __________ 81
Cluster Spines: ______ 72
Pryo-Acid Spray: ____ 288
Razor Claw: __________ 21
Ripper Tentacles: ____ 39
Spore Pods: _________ 161
Stinger Salvo: _______ 27

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 7:27 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
OP updated.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:41 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
OP updated for adjustments to weapons using templates.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
OP updated for V0.33

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:59 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
OP updated to V0.34 (Hit Location system revision)

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:10 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
Hi!

The pyro-acid spray weapon for bio-titans is very expensive in regards to what it can usually accomplish in a game. May need a review.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:00 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
Well, that is an odd one. Specifically, it uses an oddly shaped template. It is mostly a large Teardrop, but also has extra bulges to each side. As I recall, each bulge is essentially half of a standard 6cm barrage template, thus the cost of the Pyro-Acid Spray template is the sum of the costs of a Large Teardrop and a 6cm Barrage. This would be 15 + 3.6 = 18.6. Hmm, it seems I do have a minor error in this calculation, as I have that value in as 19. Ah, right, I had been rounding off the 3.6 to 4 at the beginning of the formula, but changed that a while ago. I guess this did not get updated.

Also, the weapon hits on a 3+ with a TSM of -2, Ignores Cover, and Damages Buildings. It IS a strong weapon. Still, adjusting for the above error, it's cost is thus (Template * 3+ * -2 * Ignore Cover * Damage Building = 18.6 * 2 * 3 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 251.1) 251. Adjusting that for Morale and Hive Mind adjustments brings it to 375.39 which rounds to 375.

Thus the cost of the weapon is now 375. I don't see how that can be adjusted without either changing the stats of the weapon or changing the weight of various modifiers. Of course, the latter would mean adjusting all weapons as needed, but if it needs adjusting then it needs adjusting.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:40 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Well, that is an odd one. Specifically, it uses an oddly shaped template. It is mostly a large Teardrop, but also has extra bulges to each side. As I recall, each bulge is essentially half of a standard 6cm barrage template, thus the cost of the Pyro-Acid Spray template is the sum of the costs of a Large Teardrop and a 6cm Barrage. This would be 15 + 3.6 = 18.6. Hmm, it seems I do have a minor error in this calculation, as I have that value in as 19. Ah, right, I had been rounding off the 3.6 to 4 at the beginning of the formula, but changed that a while ago. I guess this did not get updated.

Also, the weapon hits on a 3+ with a TSM of -2, Ignores Cover, and Damages Buildings. It IS a strong weapon. Still, adjusting for the above error, it's cost is thus (Template * 3+ * -2 * Ignore Cover * Damage Building = 18.6 * 2 * 3 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 251.1) 251. Adjusting that for Morale and Hive Mind adjustments brings it to 375.39 which rounds to 375.

Thus the cost of the weapon is now 375. I don't see how that can be adjusted without either changing the stats of the weapon or changing the weight of various modifiers. Of course, the latter would mean adjusting all weapons as needed, but if it needs adjusting then it needs adjusting.


Hi!

Why not treat it as a large teardrop template and ignore the extra "bulges"? Its not like there are any others like it and perhaps it is better to keep all templates in strict silos (small teardrop, large teardrop, small round template, etc) and approximate "odd" ones to the nearest standard size.

That way we still have uniformity and consistency without having to deal with oddities like this particular template.

Besides, I like where the barrage calculations stand as of now, I don't fancy a recalculation based on one non-standard template. Heck I would rather change the template to the standard large teardrop than recalculate (of course that may very well be the answer).

If it were done that way what would the cost be?

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:50 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
The formula cannot just ignore the extra bulges as that is more area that the template covers, and thus more models that it can hit as a result. That must have a cost.

I am against changing the Pyro-Acid Spray to just use the normal Large Teardrop template. Using the one that it has gives it more flavor and differentiates it from just being a flamer. Besides, the whole reason for having the formula is to allow for odd templates like this and to allow players to design their own odd templates and put fair values to them.

Still, that said, if the Pyro-Acid Spray used the normal Large Teardrop template instead, it would have a value of 303.

Oh, I just realized that changing the Pryo-Acid Spray also changes the Scythed Hierodule as it also uses that weapon.

Using the correct value (18.6) for the existing template now gives the Scythed Hierodule a model value of 504.8 and a formation cost of 755.
Changing the Spray to a Large Template changes it's model cost to 456.2 and formation cost to 682.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
MagnusIlluminus wrote:
The formula cannot just ignore the extra bulges as that is more area that the template covers, and thus more models that it can hit as a result. That must have a cost.

I am against changing the Pyro-Acid Spray to just use the normal Large Teardrop template. Using the one that it has gives it more flavor and differentiates it from just being a flamer. Besides, the whole reason for having the formula is to allow for odd templates like this and to allow players to design their own odd templates and put fair values to them.

Still, that said, if the Pyro-Acid Spray used the normal Large Teardrop template instead, it would have a value of 303.

Oh, I just realized that changing the Pryo-Acid Spray also changes the Scythed Hierodule as it also uses that weapon.

Using the correct value (18.6) for the existing template now gives the Scythed Hierodule a model value of 504.8 and a formation cost of 755.
Changing the Spray to a Large Template changes it's model cost to 456.2 and formation cost to 682.


Hi!

Hmm. Seems we're stuck on that one then.

My memory on its effectiveness is foggy enough to set it aside until I can think over how useful it may be.

I'll keep this one aside for now and perhaps revisit under the tyranid revision.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:27 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
OP updated for V0.4

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
OP updated to V0.41

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Tyranid
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:50 pm
Posts: 1542
OP updated for V0.42

Some interesting changes here, and that's the last for V0.42.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net