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| Points formula values for Titan Legions http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=173&t=27316 |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Points formula values for Titan Legions |
Updated for most recent version of the formula (V0.46). __________________________ Model or Formation name _ V0.46 Cost _ vs 0.43 _ vs Gold _ Titan Legions _Model value Adeptus Mechanicus: _______ 47.6 ____ -1.05 __ -2.4 Adeptus Psyker: ___________ 43.925 ___ 0 ____ -56.08 Astropath: ________________ 53.2 _____ 0 ____ -46.8 Forward Observer: _________ 47.04 ____ 0 ____ +22.04 Grey Knights: ____________ 107.14 ___ -9.72 __ +7.136 Inquisitor: ______________ 199.29 __ -22.05 _ +99.29 Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor: _ 117.95 __ -22.05 _ -32.05 Assault HQ: _______________ 50.05 ___ -6.3 __ +50.05 Tactical HQ: ______________ 37.1 _____ 0 ____ +37.1 Assault: __________________ 15.4 ____ -1.994 _ -4.6 Heavy: ____________________ 26.95 ____ 0 ____ -13.05 Tactical: _________________ 10.45 ____ 0 ____ -14.55 Chimedon: _________________ 44 ______ -1.925 _ -6 Chimera: __________________ 31.625 __ -1.925 _ -3.375 Chimera, Command: _________ 71.925 __ -3.85 _ +36.925 Chimera, Command Stealth __ 86.31 ___ -4.62 _ +51.31 Chimerax: _________________ 35.75 ___ -1.925_ -14.25 Chimerro: _________________ 41.525 __ +1.375 _ -8.475 Hellhound: ________________ 27.473 _ -31.93 _ -22.53 Hydra AA Gun: _____________ 86.075 ___ 0 _____ +1.075 Leman Russ: _______________ 53.364 __ -3.85 _ -11.64 Leman Russ, Command: _____ 105.37 ___ -7.7 __ +40.368 Recon Land Speeder: ______ 114.66 ___ -2.94 _ +74.66 Rhino, Command ____________ 74.043 ___ 0 ____ +74.043 Rhino, Command Stealth ____ 88.851 ___ 0 ____ +88.851 Sabre Tank-Hunter: ________ 32.725 ___ 0 _____ -2.275 Basilisk: ________________ 135.96 ____ 0 ____ +70.96 Bombard: _________________ 191.95 ____ 0 ___ +126.95 Griffon: __________________ 83.916 ___ 0 ____ +18.916 Manticore: ________________ 75.818 ___ 0 ____ +10.818 Thunderbolt Fighter: _____ 131.84 __ -64.63 _ +46.835 Marauder Bomber: _________ 130.61 __ -15.47 _ +15.611 Knight Baron: ____________ 196.67 __ -39.2 ___ -3.335 Knight Castellian: _______ 102.92 ___ -3.6 __ -62.09 Knight Crusader: _________ 110.12 ___ -3.6 __ -54.89 Knight Errant: ____________ 98.415 _ -25.2 __ +13.415 Knight Errant, Command: __ 127.22 __ -38.7 __ +42.215 Knight Lancer: ____________ 74.775 _ -12.6 __ -25.225 Knight Lancer, Command: __ 109.76 __ -16.8 ___ +9.755 Knight Paladin: ___________ 88.215 _ -16.8 __ -11.79 Knight Paladin, Command: _ 120.32 __ -25.2 __ +20.315 Knight Warden Mk1 & 3: ____ 60.645 __ -3.6 __ -24.36 Knight Warden Mk2: ________ 74.645 __ -3.6 __ -10.32 Stormblade: ______________ 154.88 ___ +1.65_ -145.1 Imperial Dropship: _______ 643.59 __ +15.09_ +243.59 AMO Armageddon: __________ 787.85 ___ -4.03_ +287.85 AMO Golgotha: ____________ 561.03 ___ -4.03_ +211.03 AMO Mars: _______________ 1310 ____ -865 ___ +960 Warhound hull: ___________ 293.57 __ -51.52_ +168.57 Reaver hull: _____________ 331.49 __ -48.3 __ +31.488 Warlord hull: ____________ 407.53 __ -33.81 _ -92.47 Warlord Psy Titan: _______ 645.11 _ -183 _____ -4.889 Imperator: ______________ 1908.6 ___ -13.28_ -341.4 Standard Adeptus Mechanicus List: _ Company Formations: Knight Paladin: ______ 498 __ -145 _ -102 Knight Lancer: _______ 430 __ -119 _ -170 Knight Errant: _______ 548 __ -193 __ +48 Titan Defense: _______ 176 _____ 0 _ -324 Mechanized*: _________ 451 ___ -17 _ -299 Mechanized Assault*: _ 530 ___ -49 _ -120 Leman Russ: __________ 452 ___ -33 _ -298 Stormblade: __________ 361 ____ +3 _ -549 * Upgrade 3 Chimera: _ to Chimedon: _ +37 ___ 0 __ +37 _ to Chimerax: _ +12 ___ 0 __ +12 _ to Chimerro: _ +30 ___ 0 __ +30 _ Special Formations: Adeptus Mechanicus, CmChimera: 135 ___ -6 __ +35 Adeptus Mechanicus, CmRhino: _ 138 ___ -1 __ +38 Adeptus Psyker, CmChimera: ____ 58 ___ -1 __ -42 Adeptus Psyker, CmRhino: ______ 59 ____ 0 __ -41 Astropath, CmChimera: _________ 68 ____ 0 __ -32 Astropath, CmRhino: ___________ 68 ____ 0 __ -32 Forward Observer, CmChimera: _ 149 ___ -5 __ +99 Forward Observer, CmRhino: ___ 152 ____ 0 _ +102 Grey Knights: ________________ 321 __ -30 __ -79 Inquisitor, CmChimera: _______ 214 __ -23 _ +114 Inquisitor, CmRhino: _________ 214 __ -22 _ +114 Knight Baron: ________________ 197 __ -52 ___ -3 Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor, C: __ 132 __ -23 __ -18 Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor, R: __ 133 __ -22 __ -17 Imperial Dropship: _ 644 __ +16 __ +244 AMO Armageddon: ____ 788 ___ -3 __ +288 AMO Golgotha: ______ 561 ___ -4 __ +211 AMO Mars: _________ 1310 _ -239 __ +960 Psy Titan: _________ 645 __ -75 ____ -5 Warhound hull: _____ 294 __ -51 __ +169 2x Warhound hulls __ 587 _ -103 __ +337 Reaver hull: _______ 331 __ -49 ___ +31 Warlord hull: ______ 408 __ -33 ___ -92 _ Support Formations: Heavy: _______________ 121 ____ 0 _ -129 Tactical: _____________ 47 ____ 0 _ -103 Mechanized Assault _ Chimera ____________ 144 __ -13 __ -81 _ Chimedon ___________ 174 __ -14 __ -51 _ Chimerax ___________ 154 __ -13 __ -71 _ Chimerro ___________ 168 __ -14 __ -57 Mechanized Heavy _ Chimera ____________ 194 ___ -5 _ -156 _ Chimedon ___________ 224 ___ -5 _ -126 _ Chimerax ___________ 207 ___ -3 _ -143 _ Chimerro ___________ 218 ___ -5 _ -132 Mechanized Tactical _ Chimera ____________ 123 ___ -4 _ -152 _ Chimedon ___________ 153 ___ -5 _ -122 _ Chimerax ___________ 133 ___ -4 _ -142 _ Chimerro ___________ 148 ___ -3 _ -117 Chimera: _____ 74 ___ -4 __ -26 Chimedon: ___ 103 ___ -4 __ -47 Chimerax: ____ 83 ___ -5 __ -67 Chimerro: ____ 97 ___ -4 __ -53 Hellhound: ___ 64 __ -47 __ -86 Hydra: ______ 201 ____ 0 __ -99 Leman Russ: _ 125 ___ -8 _ -125 Sabre: _______ 76 ____ 0 __ -24 Basilisk: __ 317 _____ 0 _ +118 Bombard: ___ 448 _____ 0 _ +252 Griffon: ___ 196 _____ 0 ___ -4 Manticore: _ 177 _____ 0 __ -23 Marauder: ____ 305 __ -36 __ -45 Thunderbolt: _ 308 _ -150 __ +58 Castellian: _______ 240 __ -35 _ -260 Crusader: _________ 257 __ -35 _ -243 Errant: ___________ 230 __ -79 __ -20 Lancer: ___________ 174 __ -51 _ -126 Paladin: __________ 206 __ -60 __ -94 Warden: _ 3x Mk1 or Mk3 ____ 142 __ -29 _ -108 _ 3x Mk2 ___________ 174 __ -30 __ -76 _ 2x Mk1/3, 1x Mk2 _ 156 __ -29 __ -94 _ 2x Mk2, 1x Mk1/3 _ 160 __ -30 __ -90 Stormblade: ________ 155 ___ +2 __ -145 Titan Legions List _ Company Formations: Imperator Titan: _________ 1909 __ -13 _ -341 Reaver Group (3 hulls): ___ 994 _ -145 __ +94 Warlord Group (3 hulls): _ 1223 _ -101 _ -277 _ Support Formations: Warhound hull: _____ 294 __ -51 __ +169 2x Warhound hulls __ 587 _ -103 __ +337 Reaver hull: _______ 331 __ -49 ___ +31 Warlord hull: ______ 408 __ -33 ___ -92 Sample Army ___________ v046 __ 043 ___ Gold ---Legio Victorum Warlord Titan Group ___ 1223 _ 1324 __ var -#1 _____________________ na ___ na __ 500 -- Fire Control __________ 0 ____ 0 ___ 75 -- Deathstrike _________ 103 __ 139 ___ 75 -- Plasma Destructor Re _ 90 ___ 90 __ 125 -- Barrage Missile _____ 634 __ 845 __ 100 -- Volcano Cannon ______ 242 __ 322 __ 100 -#2 _____________________ na ___ na __ 500 -- Fire Control __________ 0 ____ 0 ___ 75 -- Deathstrike _________ 103 __ 139 ___ 75 -- Gatling Blaster ______ 58 ___ 58 ___ 60 -- Multi-Launcher ______ 130 __ 365 __ 100 -- Multi-Launcher ______ 130 __ 365 __ 100 -#3 _____________________ na ___ na __ 500 -- Fire Control __________ 0 ____ 0 ___ 75 -- Deathstrike _________ 103 __ 139 ___ 75 -- Laser Blaster ________ 29 ___ 29 ___ 50 -- Multi-Launcher ______ 130 __ 365 __ 100 -- Multi-Launcher ______ 130 __ 365 __ 100 -Su Warhound Titans ____ 587 __ 690 __ var -#1 _____________________ na ___ na __ 125 -- Vulcan Mega-Bolter ___ 19 ___ 19 __ 50 -- Inferno Gun ___________ 8 ___ 54 ___ 50 -#2 _____________________ na ___ na __ 125 -- Vulcan Mega-Bolter ___ 19 ___ 19 __ 50 -- Laser Blaster ________ 19 ___ 19 ___ 50 Reaver Titan Group _____ 994 _ 1139 __ var -#1 _____________________ na ___ na __ 300 -- Volcano Cannon ______ 161 __ 161 __ 100 -- Turbo-Laser __________ 58 ___ 58 ___ 75 -- Chain Fist ___________ 52 ___ 38 ___ 25 -#2 _____________________ na ___ na __ 300 -- Quake Cannon ________ 100 ___ 93 ___ 85 -- Inferno Gun ___________ 8 ___ 54 ___ 50 -- Wrecker ______________ 55 ___ 55 ___ 25 -#3 _____________________ na ___ na __ 300 -- Gatling Blaster ______ 39 ___ 39 ___ 60 -- Melta-Cannon _________ 52 ___ 52 ___ 50 -- Power Fist ___________ 43 ___ 43 ___ 15 -Su Warhound Titans ____ 587 __ 690 __ var -#1 _____________________ na ___ na __ 125 -- Vulcan Mega-Bolter ___ 19 ___ 19 ___ 50 -- Gatling Blaster ______ 39 ___ 39 ___ 60 -#2 _____________________ na ___ na __ 125 -- Vulcan Mega-Bolter ___ 19 ___ 19 ___ 50 -- Melta-Cannon _________ 52 ___ 52 ___ 50 Ally Imperial Guard Tactical Company _______ 417 __ 436 __ 600 -Sp Adeptus Mechanicus _ 122 __ 127 __ 100 -Su Predator ___________ 103 __ 103 __ 200 --- Totals ____________ 6779 _ 5359 _ 6000 |
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| Author: | primarch [ Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
Hi! It is very appropriate that the Imperator's cost is so high. I always believed it was remarkably cheap for its firepower and durability. I have never seen it fall in battle, so at over 4600 points, it should only appear in the most "titanic" of battles.  Primarch |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
A large portion of it's cost comes from it's Armor saves, since it rolls 2d6 as if a building! That is a bit over 1600 right there. It's weapon costs come to: Main Battery: 763 secondary weapons: 64 Defense Laser: 640 Gun Towers: 108 Hellstorm: 768 Plasma Annihilator: 304 I can go over the rest of the factors if anyone is curious. |
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| Author: | primarch [ Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
MagnusIlluminus wrote: A large portion of it's cost comes from it's Armor saves, since it rolls 2d6 as if a building! That is a bit over 1600 right there. It's weapon costs come to: Main Battery: 763 secondary weapons: 64 Defense Laser: 640 Gun Towers: 108 Hellstorm: 768 Plasma Annihilator: 304 I can go over the rest of the factors if anyone is curious. Hi! Having used it over the years and its clear dominance, I like that its cost is so high.  Primarch |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Fri May 02, 2014 7:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
If you thought it's cost was high as a model, wait until you see it's cost as a Company... ____________________________________ Standard Adeptus Mechanicus List: _ Company Formations: calculated cost (NEGold) Knight Paladin: 1135 (600) Knight Lancer: 1190 (600) Knight Errant: 1150 (500) Titan Defense: 210 (500) Mechanized: 550 (750) Mechanized Assault: 720 (650) Leman Russ: 650 (750) Stormblade: 835 (900) _ Special Formations: [Note: all Command Rhino replaced with Command Chimera] Adeptus Mechanicus: 175 (100) Adeptus Psyker: 165 (100) Astropath: 165 (100) Forward Observer: 205 (50) Grey Knights: 505 (400) Inquisitor: 330 (100) Knight Baron: 460 (200) Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor: 335 (150) Imperial Dropship: 1520 (400) AMO Armageddon: 1415 (500) AMO Golgotha: 1310 (350) AMO Mars: 1920 (350) Psy Titan: 885 (650) Warlord hull: 770 (500) Reaver hull: 695 (300) Warhound hull: 645 (125) 2x Warhound hulls: 1285 (250) _ Support Formations: Heavy: 200 (250) Tactical: 65 (150) Mechanized Assault: 275 (225) Mechanized Heavy: 350 (350) Mechanized Tactical: 210 (275) Chimera: 155 (100) _ Upgrade 3 to Chimedon: +85 (+50) _ Upgrade 3 to Chimerax: +30 (+50) _ Upgrade 3 to Chimerro: +45 (+50) Chimedon: 240 (150) Chimerax: 185 (150) Chimerro: 200 (150) Hellhound: 170 (150) Hydra: 585 (300) Leman Russ: 280 (250) Sabre: 155 (100) Basilisk: 885 (200) Bombard: 1430 (200) Griffon: 410 (200) Manticore: 330 (200) Marauder: 785 (350) Thunderbolt: 680 (250) Castellian: 695 (500) Crusader: 750 (500) Errant: 565 (250) Lancer: 510 (300) Paladin: 550 (300) Warden: varies (250) _ Mk1 or Mk3: 135 each _ Mk2 (Multi-Launcher): 165 each Stormblade: 365 (300) Titan Legions List _ Company Formations: Imperator Titan: 7825 (2250) Reaver Group (3 hulls): 2085 (900) Warlord Group (3 hulls): 2305 (1500) _ Support Formations: Warlord hull: 960 (500) Reaver hull: 870 (300) Warhound hull: 805 (125) 2 Warhound hulls: 1610 (250) |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Fri May 02, 2014 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
Oh, building that I found a few more models to add to the list in the 1st post. These all add the Command and HQ abilities to a normal model of their type. Chimera, Command: 60.8 Leman Russ, Command: 111 Knight Errant, Command: 192 Knight Lancer, Command: 195 Knight Paladin, Command: 195 Also, as far as I can tell, the Adeptus Mechanicus does not hold to the Imperial Guard command rules. At least, there is nothing that I can find in their pdf that mentions it. |
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| Author: | primarch [ Fri May 02, 2014 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
MagnusIlluminus wrote: Oh, building that I found a few more models to add to the list in the 1st post. These all add the Command and HQ abilities to a normal model of their type. Chimera, Command: 60.8 Leman Russ, Command: 111 Knight Errant, Command: 192 Knight Lancer, Command: 195 Knight Paladin, Command: 195 Also, as far as I can tell, the Adeptus Mechanicus does not hold to the Imperial Guard command rules. At least, there is nothing that I can find in their pdf that mentions it. Hi! I don't think they do either, so their cost would be slightly higher because of this. You know Magnus the costs for titans are looking very similar to the ones in original AT. Cost were higher for titans (very durable). Given all the durability changes they have undergone I think it is very appropriate their costs have gone up. Primarch |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Fri May 02, 2014 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
The formation costs in the list above reflect not holding to the Guard command structure. This will be more apparent when I post the list for the Guard, which is who I'm finishing up on currently. Hopefully will be posted later this evening. |
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| Author: | primarch [ Fri May 02, 2014 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
MagnusIlluminus wrote: The formation costs in the list above reflect not holding to the Guard command structure. This will be more apparent when I post the list for the Guard, which is who I'm finishing up on currently. Hopefully will be posted later this evening. Hi! Look forward to seeing that one (IG), very curious on how the artillery costs turn out). Primarch |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Sat May 03, 2014 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
Oh, aaargh. In doing up the Guard I realized that I forgot to adjust the Chimera (and variants) save value for this list. This means all formations that include any Chimera (etc) are incorrect. I'll fix this ASAP. |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Sun May 04, 2014 12:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
Whoops, forgot to adjust the 'to hit' on the Hellhound. Corrected entry: Hellhound: 55.75 (50) Also, Chimeras adjust to: Chimedon: 36.5 (50) Chimera: 36.5 (35) Chimera, Command: 56.8 Chimerax: 44 (50) Chimerro: 48.5 (50) Formations affected adjust to: _Company: Mechanized: 595 (750) Mechanized Assault: 800 (650) _Support Mechanized Assault: 265 (225) Mechanized Heavy: 335 (350) Mechanized Tactical: 195 (275) Chimera: 140 (100) _ Upgrade 3 to Chimedon: +90 (+50) _ Upgrade 3 to Chimerax: +30 (+50) _ Upgrade 3 to Chimerro: +45 (+50) Chimedon: 230 (150) Chimerax: 170 (150) Chimerro: 185 (150) Hellhound: 215 (150) |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Sun May 04, 2014 5:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
As per the proposed change to Transport costs, the following are new values: [The entry for Chimedon in the post above was in error. It should have been 59 points.] Chimedon: 55 Chimera: 32.5 Chimera, Command: 52.8 Chimerax: 40 Chimerro: 44.5 Imperial Dropship: 665 Imperator: 4609 In addition, adjusting Save Templates by -25% brings: Imperial Dropship: 616 AMO Armegeddon: 769 AMO Golgotha: 718 AMO Mars: 1078 Warhound: 348 Reaver: 344 Warlord: 381 Imperator: 4061 Warlord Psy: 448 Adjusting Save value by -50% brings: Imperial Dropship: 592 AMO Armegeddon: 733 AMO Golgotha: 688 AMO Mars: 1045 Warhound: 330 Reaver: 310 Warlord: 344 Imperator: 3788 Warlord Psy: 408 These numbers seem a bit better. While an Imperator may be under valued at 2250, nearly doubling that is just too high, especially as then the Company cost is nearly 8K! This may not be a lot better either. hmm |
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| Author: | primarch [ Sun May 04, 2014 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
hi! I would not worry about the Imperator too much since embarked troops get to fire, which is rare amongst units with transport abilities (the mega gargant being the other). Perhaps a cap, as suggested on the other thread for transport costs may be a solution. Primarch |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Mon May 05, 2014 6:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
Also the Capitol Imperialis allows embarked troops to fire out, as noted by The Bissler. But yes, it is a very rare ability. |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Mon May 19, 2014 7:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions |
Sorry it's been so long since I put time into the conversions. Here is the Formations converted to Break Point of 100% as default: ______________ Standard Adeptus Mechanicus List: revised to BP 100% _ Company Formations: calculated cost Knight Paladin: 605 Knight Lancer: 570 Knight Errant: 615 Titan Defense: 100 Mechanized: 335 Mechanized Assault: 450 _ Upgrade 3 to Chimedon: +45 _ Upgrade 3 to Chimerax: +15 _ Upgrade 3 to Chimerro: +25 Leman Russ: 455 Stormblade: 515 _ Special Formations: [Note: all Command Rhino replaced with Command Chimera. Formations with * may return to Command Rhino and save 20 points, while ones with ** may return and save 0 points. This is not a typo.] Adeptus Mechanicus: 100* Adeptus Psyker: 45** Astropath: 45** Forward Observer: 115* Grey Knights: 255 Inquisitor: 155** Knight Baron: 310 Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor: 160** Imperial Dropship: 565 AMO Armageddon: 820 AMO Golgotha: 770 AMO Mars: 1170 Psy Titan: 455 Warlord hull: 385 Reaver hull: 345 Warhound hull: 370 2x Warhound hulls: 740 _ Support Formations: Heavy: 115 Tactical: 40 Mechanized Assault: 155 Mechanized Heavy: 200 Mechanized Tactical: 115 _ Upgrade 3 to Chimedon: +50 _ Upgrade 3 to Chimerax: +15 _ Upgrade 3 to Chimerro: +25 Chimera: 85 Chimedon: 145 Chimerax: 105 Chimerro: 115 Hellhound: 145 Hydra: 395 Leman Russ: 190 Sabre: 105 Basilisk: 600 Bombard: 965 Griffon: 275 Manticore: 225 Marauder: 530 Thunderbolt: 460 Castellian: 400 Crusader: 430 Errant: 320 Lancer: 290 Paladin: 315 Warden: varies _ Mk1 or Mk3: 75 each _ Mk2 (Multi-Launcher): 95 each Stormblade: 285 Titan Legions List _ Company Formations: Imperator Titan: 5750 Reaver Group (3 hulls): 1170 Warlord Group (3 hulls): 1300 _ Support Formations: Warlord hull: 480 Reaver hull: 435 Warhound hull: 460 2 Warhound hulls: 920 |
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