Tactical Command
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Gold Summary for Squats
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=173&t=27210		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  primarch [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Gold Summary for Squats
Hi!

Summary

1. increase cost of biker squads from 200 to 250 points

2. increase cost of guild biker company from 600 to 700 points (to reflect new cost of bikes), remove the "unique".

3. increase cost of Colossus from 500 to 600 points

4. increase cost of Cyclops from 450 to 500 points

5. increase cost of Leviathan from 350 to 400 points (no change for the IronBreaker company)

6. increase cost of the DoomAnvil Squadron from 1400 to 1600 points (break point should be "each", morale: "-" and VP "each"

7. Edit some of the company compositions for better clarity.

8. Reword for better clarity the process of firing and inflicting damage from the Cyclops.

Primarch
Author:  zap123 [ Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gold Summary for Squats
Again...these are for platinum right?

Also, even with an increase in cost to 700 there's still no way I'd remove unique from the Guild Bikers. Maybe at 900....

Dont understand the imperative to up the cost of the pretty feeble Leviathan, or the Cyclops for that matter. One thing you could do is fix the fire arc for the side weapons to be 180 degrees left x3 and right x3. Colossus is arguably a bit cheap, but against some armies it is just crunchy points....I'm looking at you Tyranids!
Author:  primarch [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gold Summary for Squats
zap123 wrote:
Again...these are for platinum right?

Also, even with an increase in cost to 700 there's still no way I'd remove unique from the Guild Bikers. Maybe at 900....

Dont understand the imperative to up the cost of the pretty feeble Leviathan, or the Cyclops for that matter. One thing you could do is fix the fire arc for the side weapons to be 180 degrees left x3 and right x3. Colossus is arguably a bit cheap, but against some armies it is just crunchy points....I'm looking at you Tyranids!


Hi!

These are the changes for gold.

If you have data to suggest against any of these, now is the time to post them. :)

Primarch
Author:  scream [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gold Summary for Squats
zap123 wrote:
Again...these are for platinum right?

Also, even with an increase in cost to 700 there's still no way I'd remove unique from the Guild Bikers. Maybe at 900....

Dont understand the imperative to up the cost of the pretty feeble Leviathan, or the Cyclops for that matter. One thing you could do is fix the fire arc for the side weapons to be 180 degrees left x3 and right x3. Colossus is arguably a bit cheap, but against some armies it is just crunchy points....I'm looking at you Tyranids!


Hi zap,

I've tested all those costs since few years now and they work well.

increase points on praetorians is logical as they now benefit a template that give them a better chance to survive on battlefield.

At least, those new costs put the squat army back in the game against other armies (tested vs IG, TL, Orks...) "except" tyranids. Imho, it's not really fair to keep the squats so high in performance just because of the tyranid list that's still over them.

About the "too good" squat cavalry, the "unique" ability on the card was an "easy" solution to restrict presence of bikers on the battlefield but honestly, it was not that restrictive. You could still pick 1 guild biker company and add many biker support cards at 200 points...
If the bikers are too good at 200 points for a detachment, we have 3 solutions to avoid "unique":
- reduce caf
- increase cost
- reduce caf & increase cost
I've tested the 2nd solution, giving it a try and with praetorian cost increase, it works pretty well.
Author:  The Bissler [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gold Summary for Squats
I'm not in favour of reintroducing restrictive fire arcs. I remember these well from 1st Edition Epic. They were a pain in the arse and players would waste a lot of time trying to get their minis facing an enemy unit dead on so they could use the weaponry from both sides.

I don't see the Leviathan as feeble. Just compare it to a similarly costed Reaver Titan. It has better weaponry, as many void shields and hit locations just the same as the Reaver. The 350 was fine when it just used to be a 1+ save for the Leviathan. The introduction of the damage tables has granted them increased longevity on the battlefield. I'd argue we should consider increasing their cost by another 50 points...
Author:  primarch [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gold Summary for Squats
Hi!

In my experience a cost increase is enough. The addition of a hit location template adds a lot of durability. While a titan may have better firepower, the preatorians generally have better survivability.

The cost increase is the easiest method of balance.

Primarch
Author:  scream [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gold Summary for Squats
The Bissler wrote:
I'd argue we should consider increasing their cost by another 50 points...


At the moment, +50 for each praetorian and +100 for colossus is enough. Don't forget that they are very slow in comparison to a reaver and they don't benefit the "titan defense rule" (they can be surrounded in CC by any models).
Author:  primarch [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gold Summary for Squats
scream wrote:
The Bissler wrote:
I'd argue we should consider increasing their cost by another 50 points...


At the moment, +50 for each praetorian and +100 for colossus is enough. Don't forget that they are very slow in comparison to a reaver and they don't benefit the "titan defense rule" (they can be surrounded in CC by any models).


Hi!

Agreed. The increase is justified at what it currently is, any more would be too penalizing.

Primarch
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