More thoughts.

Venerable Dreadnoughts? Anyone used them and had any success?
I know they are only used by Iron Hands, but I think they should be available to everyone (the last few marine codices have had them available to all) the whole Iron Hands list needs reviewing based on some comments, but that is for a later date.

The rules themselves seem a bit meh, +2 CAF for supposedly some of the best units in the chapter?
Anywho, this is what I am proposing.

A unit of 4 as a special formation. Several chapters have formations of Venerables in Apocalypse, so I think it fits here and a single model is unlikely to make much impact.

Move: 10cm
Save: 3+
CAF: +4
Assault Cannon 50cm - 2AD - 4+ TH - 0 TSM
Flamer Template - 0AD - 4+ TH - 0TSM
Elite, Inspirational

Cost: 250pts for a formation of 4 (Special)

My reasoning. Move of 10cm to bring it in line with the rest of the dreadnoughts, could stay at 15 but nothing in the fluff says they move any quicker.
Increased save as they are harder to kill compared to other dreads (they re-roll the damage roll in 40k).
Assault cannon stays the same though with a slight boost to hit as they have better BS than other dreads also the flamer brought inline with other flamer weapons.
Dropped the HQ rule as they aren't meant to be leaders, but they are elite and can inspire other troops.

The old venerable was 50pts for a single model, but with a slightly better save and CAF in should be a few mores points. 250 for a squad of 4 seems about right.

Thoughts?

Matt

Hi!

No problem with me as long as you agree on the third power.

Primarch

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I think Force Dome is the best choice for a fixed third power (and I think I was thinking along similar lines). Quickening isn't too bad, but sort of replicates what a Chapter Master and Chaplain can already do.

Although thinking about it, Null Zone might be the sort of thing that Space Marines need. The one thing they lack in their list are any weapons with a high save modifier, if a Librarian could reduce an enemy model's save for a turn that would help overcome a current weak spot.

So for me it's either Force Dome or Null Zone (though maybe slightly amended).

Hi!

Two voted for force dome so far.

Keep posting your preference to select one.

Primarch

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Right then boys and girls, attached are the updated Space Marine Formation and Stats tables.
In it I have highlighted in green all the changes that have been proposed and also included a comment regarding the change (just hover over the cell to see the comment box appear).
Have a look and let me know if there is anything I have missed or need to tweak further.



The file is just for the basic marine stuff, i.e. no Chapter specific units or formations, those will come later when this list has been finalised.
There may be a more units to add, it depends how far we want to go:

Land Raider Redeemer
Stormraven
Stalker
Thunderfire Cannon
Centurians
Stormtalon
Land Speeder Storm
Vanguard
Sternguard

Not to mention the piles off stuff from FW.

Some units have been in 40k for several years now. I know we have talked about not including stuff, but I am tempted to just go for it and stick everything in and people can just choose what they want to play with (well maybe the flyers at least, since the EA guys are looking to add them to their rules so they can remove the need for marines to use Navy flyers )

Thoughts?

Matt

Wowza! Excellent.

I would say add as much stuff as possible. Players then decide what to use or not. It doesnt hurt anyone to have the stuff listed an available for use.

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One vote here for the gate of infinity.

And Mattman, your tables are excellent, really great work. Thanks again for your work on these!

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Hi!

I would like to add rules for all new units available in 40k.

I like the lists to be up to date. People use what they want to use, but the options should be there.

Primarch

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Right o. Will try and knock up some rules for the Units.
I guess just because things are in the list, doesn't mean they have to use them.

Matt

Hi!

Given how many proxy selections are out there, its good to give people a choice to be able to use them if they like.

I would add to the list:

land raider crusader
land raider promethius

Primarch

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While looking at all the different vehicles, it struck me that the marauder, thunderbolt and thunderhawk weapon loadouts differ to what they are supposed to be.

Hi!

Recommend an update as well.

Primarch

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Do we really need to add all these 40K units? It seems like overkill to me. Does Epic really have space for all the Land Speeder and Land Raider variants? The differences between them are so small that trying to find rules for them all at NetEpic levels of abstraction seems like an exercise in futility to me.

Could we also please leave out the 'flying Landraider' (Storm Raven and its variants). It's a really poor idea in 40K, and we don't have to emulate bad concepts just because 40K has them.

Regarding the Librarian's psychic powers, combining Destroy Daemon and Purge Psyker works, as the power can encompass both effects. 'Purge Alien' might work as a title, but I'll leave this up to Marine players.

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It is down to personnel choice, just because a unit is listed, doesn't mean you have to use it. If you want to stick with the general units then go for it.
I quite like the look of the new Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor and would love to use them in a game of Epic as well as things like the Achilles or the Terminus Ultra (never going to be able to play them in a game of 40k), obviously those would test my conversion skills unless someone decided to make a few versions of their own

Matt

Hi!

I prefer to have the lists "up to date" with current 40k lore.

It's up to the players to decide what to use or not.

The Gold version will stay remain as is and the Platinum/Titanium version will have more options.

I usually worry less about unit additions (they can be changed, discarded or not used) than I am with rules changes (which can be tricky to balance).

Heck there are units in gold I wonder how they got in there....

Primarch

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