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Army List: Chaos

 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Hi!

Agreed on the cultist rider.

Is the consensus regarding the banelord a cost reduction to 650 and leave as is?

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Personally, I'm fine with the Banelord at 700, for the reasons (IE, math) that I stated. If others feel it needs to be reduced, I can live with that, but 650 is IMHO the lowest it should go.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:01 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Personally, I'm fine with the Banelord at 700, for the reasons (IE, math) that I stated. If others feel it needs to be reduced, I can live with that, but 650 is IMHO the lowest it should go.


Hi!

I've never had much of a problem with the banelord as written (I tend to use it when I play chaos).

700 points is pretty good for a warlord chassis and weapons. Now that it doesn't have the reactor vulnerability in the front template, it should do quite well.

Perhaps a poll is in order, I'll wait for more commentary before I do one.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:44 am 
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650 would be too low. If there's no solution to remove the Khorne "daemon engine" rule on the Banelord (even if this would increase the cost), just let it as it is.

Another question: why when picking a Chaos Space Marine infantry company you don't get a chaos reward card ?

You get 1 per Standard Chaos List Company Card, you get the Legion Chaos Reward when picking a Chaos Space Marine Century but none for a Chaos Marine Infantry Company (Chaos Marine Company, Havok Company or Terminator Company).

If I play an Iron Warriors Army and take a Chaos Terminator Company, I suppose I can not play on them a Unique Iron Warriors Chaos Reward Card that was obtained by the Iron Warriors Siege Company ?


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:23 pm 
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That's a good point Scream and you're right that you can't use your Chaos reward on any "standard" Chaos Marine. I'm guessing that the problem is that the rewards are specific to each particular chapter/followers and that there isn't a special reward for everyone else.

The solution I would suggest is that players would randomly select a Chaos Reward card to apply to any standard company bought.

While we are talking about Chaos Marines, why is it the case that you can't buy Rhinos and Land Raiders in the specific lists, only the vanilla Chaos Marine army and the standard Chaos list? Could these be added into the Support Cards as well?

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:33 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
While we are talking about Chaos Marines, why is it the case that you can't buy Rhinos and Land Raiders in the specific lists, only the vanilla Chaos Marine army and the standard Chaos list? Could these be added into the Support Cards as well?


Sure you can :) You can take any support/special card from Chaos Space Marine list to codex list, it's stated in each divinity century description:

Example:
"The Thousands Sons Century may take support & special cards from the Chaos Marine list."

and for codex (aka Iron Warriors, Word Bearers), it's written page 23 "Legion Excommunicate Traitoris", second paragraphe:

" All of the Legions may purchase Special & Support Cards from their Codex list, in addition to the unique Cards for that Legion. They may also take Company, Special and Support cards from the Chaos Marine list. However, as with Power-specific minions, you have to purchase a Legion Company Card in order to purchase a corresponding Legion-specific Support Card. In the interest of organization, all Chaos Undivided unit descriptions have been added to the standard unit descriptions."

I think that some restrictions on those codex lists should be changed:
- Obliterators should be also picked by Iron Warriors, the fluff clearly explained that they appeared first in that legion, not only in Black Legion (that should get another specific unit)
- No Cultists for Word Bearers should not exist too:
" The Word Bearers have been known to have a massive cultist base, and have used cultists and insurgents since the Great Crusade. However, unlike the Alpha Legion, the primary use of cultists is as cannon fodder and distractions. "


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Thanks Scream! :)

To be honest, I seem to be very easily confused by the different lists and the 75% rule. Let's not go into that here though! (It was explained to me on another thread that if my opponent doesn't mind, pretty much field what you like - although I know it would probably be unfair to field all 4 major powers & therefore play all of the greatest hits of Chaos.)

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:56 pm 
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650 is probably too low for the Banelord, in spite of its problems. 700 looks to be the value to assign to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Missing Terminator HQ stats in stats table, it should have the same stats than loyalist one (get a +7 caf, command and HQ abilities in addition to standard terminator).


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:43 am 
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In addition to my previous thoughts, it could be interesting to create a chaos undivided daemon prince special card for Chaos Space Marine List.

Special Cards:

Chaos Undivided Daemon Prince/Daemon Prince/Stand/-/1/ 100 points
Stats: 10cm/3+/+7/Daemonic Sword/-/-/-/Special

Chaos Undived Winged Daemon Prince/Winged Daemon Prince/Stand/-/1/150 points
Stats: 20cm/3+/+7/Daemonic Sword/-/-/-/Skimmer, Special


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:44 am 
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The power boost the Banelord receives when Chaos is leading is more than enough justification for the 700 points....the thing is a monster. Locally it has become pretty much impossible to stop a Khorne army taking the lead for the second turn, and the Banelord, LoB and DEs become very formidable. If you've faced 3 Tower of Skulls with a 1+ all around save, 5+ 3D6 CAF and firing 5 shots at 4 to hit with a -1, you'd think they were worth 100 points each too >:D

The Demon Engine label for the Cannons was probably just an oversight....the intention was never to stop them firing in FF.


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:08 am 
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Yes, but Chaos leading only happens a little more frequently than hell freezing over. >:D

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:48 pm 
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zap123 wrote:
The power boost the Banelord receives when Chaos is leading is more than enough justification for the 700 points....the thing is a monster. Locally it has become pretty much impossible to stop a Khorne army taking the lead for the second turn, and the Banelord, LoB and DEs become very formidable. If you've faced 3 Tower of Skulls with a 1+ all around save, 5+ 3D6 CAF and firing 5 shots at 4 to hit with a -1, you'd think they were worth 100 points each too >:D


That has never happened for me ever, and I've played Chaos since the Renegades supplement came out.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd question the army composition of opposing armies and some of the tactics being employed if Chaos is consistently getting a lead by turn two. Turn three or turn four would be possible, but turn two would be nothing short of miraculous against the armies that I've faced.

If Chaos players are managing this on a regular basis where you play, I'd love to see some detailed battle reports please, because I want to know how they do it :).

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:05 pm 
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That reminds me, I've got a video battle report to finish commentary on... Chaos took the lead in turn 1!

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Chaos
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:35 am 
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It is pretty hard to stop a Khorne army with Fleshhounds, Berzerkers and Marines mounted in Rhinos from grabbing a bunch of objectives. For other armies like 'Nids and Necrons, Khorne essentially gets an auto win for at least 2 turns. Chaos leading seems to happen a lot more frequently than suggested for us.

There were a few Chaos batreps I put up here that demonstrated exactly this, but it looks like they dropped off in one of the Taccom moves. <edit> Oh, here's one:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=18313

Not really a Khorne heavy force but still.


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