Hi!

Status Update:

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This is just to get an idea to see where we are all at.

Primarch

For question of weapon balancing cost, I think that rounding all weapons to x*25 points will slighty change how you equip your titan.

In wich direction will be recosted the quake cannon for example ? 75 or 100 ? It's better than a 75 points weapon but worse than a 100 points one...Will you change its stats to make it enter in the 75 or 100 points cell ?

If the future titan rules become only optional, then it weapons re-balanced/re-costed but at the moment, the costs are nice and are adequate with their stats.

I also have titans with a cost of 585 points but I usually never add a close combat head to avoid decreasing head save...

I think the quake cannon is easily worth 100pts and is a steal at any cheaper, I always take it rather than Volcano Cannons.
Both have range 100cm.
Both hit on 3+.
Quake cannon can potentially hit more than one target since it is a barrage (plus doesn't scatter).
Quake cannon has an advantage against holo fields due to being a template.
Both have high save mod.
Quake cannon can also hit buildings (so potentially killing more targets) and gets an extra -1TSM for a -4 against buildings.
Volcano cannon more likely to kill a super heavy or titan due to the +3 penetrating.

I would rather have the more versatile Quake cannon which still has the potential to take out heavily armoured targets but can also take out tanks and infantry.

Matt

But Quake Cannon can not Snap Fire and this ability is a great advantage when you are charged by a close combat titan with no shield or when you want to snap fire a flyer.

If I am arming titans with 100cm range weapons then I hope to keep him out of combat or have downed the titan that is making its way across the battlefield.
I assume you are playing with the alternate flier rules as under the normal rules fliers can not be shot by titans. Even then you have a -2 to hit for snap firing at the flier.

Matt

Yes, I play with the alternative flyer rules, way more balanced than the "official one".

So if I list the titan weapons that are not multiple of 25, we have:

- Doomburner (also in chaos codex): 65
- Gatling Blaster: 60
- Quake cannon: 85
- Plasma Blastgun: 65
- Close Combat Head: 15
- Laser Burner: 10
- Power Fist (Battle Claw): 15
- Cerberus AA Gun: 40
- Carapace Multi-Lasers: 10
- Command Head: 35

For Chaos only titans weapons :
- Deathstorm: 85

Could you indicate the expected 'rounded' cost or changes on weapon stats ?

Personally, I'm against changing the values arbitrarily. Still, it seems like everyone else wants to, so majority rules. That said, I can see two ways to change the values: A: round to the nearest 25. B: round up to a multiple of 25.

Option A means new values are:
75: Doomburner, Quake Cannon, Plasma Blastgun; Deathstorm
50: Gatling Blaster, Cerberus AA gun
25: Close Combat Head, Power Fist / Battle Claw, Command Head
_0: Laser Burner, Carapace Multi-Lasers

Option B means:
100: Quake Cannon; Deathstorm
_75: Doomburner, Gatling Blaster, Plasma Blastgun
_50: Cerberus AA gun, Command Head
_25: Close Combat Head, Laser Burner, Power Fist / Battle Claw, Carapace Multi-Lasers

We probably don't want weapons that cost zero points, though it could be good to have such options here and there.

As changing weapon stats is a much more complicated issue, I'm not even going to start into that.

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Net Epic Coordinator

Hi!

Titan weapons cost is always a sticky issue. I don't think there was ever a universal acceptance of the prices, just a majority (and a slim one at that) pushing one way or another.

While I am inclined to option A, I agree that "free" may not be such a good idea, so B may be more palatable.

Actually Magnus, I for one would very much like to hear your thoughts on the titan weapon stats. I've probably heard most stances on this, but I always like more (and fresher) perspectives.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Alright, I'll have to put some thought into that later and get back to you.

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Net Epic Coordinator

Hi!

Cool thanks!

I figure if we're going through the trouble of tweaking the costs we might as well do the "full monty" with the stats as well.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

I prefer weapon costs not being rounded to multiples of 25.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Hi!

We're not changing the original table (i.e. Net Epic Gold). A lot of this stuff is for Net Epic "Platinum". So you get them in original flavor and "chocolate".

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

I did wonder if a few 0 cost options would work. Specifically some of the basic close combat options, given that you might only get one or two uses out of them in a given game compared to ranged weapons, and it might entice people to mix and match things a bit more.

Hi!

Philosophically, I agree. I think some weapons are a hold over from AT days and have been less and less useful as time goes by. To stimulate their use probably free IS the way.

A just wonder if from a practical point it can be abused (although honestly I can't figure a scenario for that).

I'll probably do some polling on the options (or just include both). But I certainly agree on the attractiveness for having some "freebies".

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

As someone who hasn't used CC weapons since SM2 got going, I would like to see them in use again. I'm hoping in particular that the alternative Titan rules (where Titans largely can charge & ff) should result in there being more Titan combats so I was thinking of arming my Titans with the odd weapon again.

Would it make much difference paying 25 points for one such weapon? I do think that weapons should cost something...

And I for one would like to see weapons going in multiples of 25. I've found the breaking of the 50 point rule quite frustrating, mostly because there aren't that many units that have 25 or 75 points in the totals. I've had to introduce a rule of "going 25 pts over the total is acceptable"!

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