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| Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=159&t=28855 |
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| Author: | Llamahead [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
Wondered whether this seems reasonable for the Imperial Guard Macharius for Net Epic Troop Type /Move /Save /CAF /Weapons /Range/Attack Dice/To-Hit Roll/TSM/Notes Macharius/15cm/2+/+4/Battlecannon/75cm/2/4+/-2/Turret, PD(2), Super Heavy Macharius”Vanquisher”/15cm/2+/+4/Vanquisher Cannon/75cm/2/4+/-2/Turret, Penetrating (+1) PD(2) , Super Heavy Macharius ”Vulcan” /15cm/2+/+4/Vulcan Mega Bolter /25cm/8/4+/0/Turret, PD(2) , Super Heavy Formations Support Cards Break Point/Morale/Victory Points/Cost Macharius Squadron/3 Macharius Tanks/2/4/3/300 Macharius “Vanquisher” Squadron/3 Macharius “ Vanquisher” Tanks/2/4/3/325 Macharius “Vulcan” Squadron/3 Macharius “ Vulcan” Tanks/2/4/3/400 Company Cards Break Point/Morale/Victory Points/Cost Macharius Company/2/4/5/950 Macharius CHQ 3 Macharius Squadron Net Epic Gold Formula Costs Macharius Squadron 96/288/300 Macharius “Vanquisher” Squadron 98/294/300 Maharius “Vulcan” Squadron 86/258/250 96/960/950 |
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| Author: | primarch [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
Llamahead wrote: Wondered whether this seems reasonable for the Imperial Guard Macharius for Net Epic Troop Type /Move /Save /CAF /Weapons /Range/Attack Dice/To-Hit Roll/TSM/Notes Macharius/15cm/2+/+4/Battlecannon/75cm/2/4+/-2/Turret, PD(2), Super Heavy Macharius”Vanquisher”/15cm/2+/+4/Vanquisher Cannon/75cm/2/4+/-2/Turret, Penetrating (+1) PD(2) , Super Heavy Macharius ”Vulcan” /15cm/2+/+4/Vulcan Mega Bolter /25cm/8/4+/0/Turret, PD(2) , Super Heavy Formations Support Cards Break Point/Morale/Victory Points/Cost Macharius Squadron/3 Macharius Tanks/2/4/3/300 Macharius “Vanquisher” Squadron/3 Macharius “ Vanquisher” Tanks/2/4/3/325 Macharius “Vulcan” Squadron/3 Macharius “ Vulcan” Tanks/2/4/3/400 Company Cards Break Point/Morale/Victory Points/Cost Macharius Company/2/4/5/950 Macharius CHQ 3 Macharius Squadron Net Epic Gold Formula Costs Macharius Squadron 96/288/300 Macharius “Vanquisher” Squadron 98/294/300 Maharius “Vulcan” Squadron 86/258/250 96/960/950 Hi! Looks good! I wonder if we should open up getting everything new stated up for Platinum. There are many things on those lists. Primarch |
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| Author: | @ringo [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
Nice, Some comments though: The battlecanon on the Macharius is the same as on the Leman Russ and should be 5+ Are they really superheavy or only heavy tanks? Where the he k can one get a hold on those cool minis? (I presume that they are forumware?) Or What would be a suitable proxy? (I can't find any I like, and believe me, I've looked!) |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
It's got two structure points in 40k, so probably. Where's the cutoff at for that, Primarch? |
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| Author: | primarch [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
jimmyzimms wrote: It's got two structure points in 40k, so probably. Where's the cutoff at for that, Primarch? Hi! Oh don't ask me abut 40k stuff. I am totally clueless about that game. Haven't touched it since Rogue trader.  I would not categorize it as a super heavy though. Maybe a real tough standard vehicle like the gorgon. Primarch |
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
One problem with that example, Primarch. In NetEpic Gold, the Gorgon is a Super Heavy. The Lexicanum describes the Macarius as a "Second generation Baneblade design with a variety of turret options", so it should be a Super Heavy. (I had to look it up as I'd never heard of it before this thread.) Also, Lexicanum describes it as Super Heavy. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Machari ... vy_Tank%29 |
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| Author: | Llamahead [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
@Ringo it's twin linked so I based it on the better Baneblade version I could understand however if you want to base it on half a Stormhammer instead. http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/6mmSF/Neo-Soviet/SF300-1202.html is what I've picked up their tanks make excellent Guard proxies and at £11 for 9 far cheaper than most forumware. I made it a Super Heavy for the simple reason it had Structure Points but that doesn't bother me either way. |
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| Author: | Mattman [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
They are classed as Super Heavies, they are meant to be alternatives to the standard Super Heavies like the Baneblade and are made by Forgeworlds who don't have access to the STCs. They have similar levels of armour. Changes I would make to the proposed stats would be, drop the speeds down to 10cm (they are very slow), PD down to 1, and add an extra attack to represent the 4 Heavy Bolters/Heavy Stubbers, maybe Heavy Bolters/50cm/2AD/5+/0. One thing I think we need to implement is that a lot of the big guns in 40k are template weapons these days. The Macharius Cannon fires with a 7" ordnance template. So we might have to look into using templates with some direct fire weapons, no BPs, no scatter, just roll to hit models under the template. Another, which sort of follows on from Jimmy's point, do we need different levels of Super Heavies, or in other words, Damage Capacity like in Armageddon? |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
It's good to point out that Praetorians all the way back in version 1 had the equivalent of DCs (call it what you may) so hardly a new thing. It does add to book keeping so something to consider either way. As Matt alludes to, putting things in perspective, a Baneblade has 3 structure points to the Gorgon and Mach's 2. The latter are incidentally sharing technology so whatever the Gorgon is, the Mach should be as well in size and speed (they're within 1KPH of each other-close enough to be of no consequence in Epic of any version I'd expect) |
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| Author: | primarch [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
MagnusIlluminus wrote: One problem with that example, Primarch. In NetEpic Gold, the Gorgon is a Super Heavy. The Lexicanum describes the Macarius as a "Second generation Baneblade design with a variety of turret options", so it should be a Super Heavy. (I had to look it up as I'd never heard of it before this thread.) Also, Lexicanum describes it as Super Heavy. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Machari ... vy_Tank%29 Hi! Oh, well shows what I know. Carry on.  Primarch |
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| Author: | Mattman [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
Hit points can also be used on knights to add variety. |
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| Author: | primarch [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
Mattman wrote: Hit points can also be used on knights to add variety. Hi! This would not be unprecedented since Tyranids use wounds. The thing to be careful about is that the end result (units with wounds), don't turn out better than units with hit location templates. Of course if those aren't used then things get interesting.  Primarch |
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| Author: | The Bissler [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
I don't want to see many units gaining wounds/damage points. The system works well as is. If we were to roll out damage points across the system then I think it would slow the game to disasterously. I don't think that is what is being suggested though.
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| Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
Super Heavies in NetEpic already kinda have a simulated DP system with their "do I actually die or not, having just failed my armor save" roll. If Super Heavy (& possibly Knights) were to be given Wounds, the Wounds should replace that roll. The roll works well enough for Gold, but replacing that with Wounds for Platinum could be interesting. |
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| Author: | Mattman [ Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggested Unit-Macharius for Net Epic |
Indeed. If we decide to go down a damage point route then I wouldn't expect the Super Heavy Damage Table to stay. And it isn't as if we don't have book keeping already by recording the 2-3 result on the table, void shields and hit points for nids. Normal tanks and walkers in 40k now have 3 hit points (Leman Russ, Rhino, Land Raiders, Dreadnought ect). With normal things dieing like they do in Epic, it is fair to assume that the strength of the attack/volley is enough to knock out 3 hit points, so dividing their listed HPs by 3 and rounding would be a fair starting point. From the info I have that would give us the following (the numbers are the HPs they have divided by 3): Leman Russ 1 (3 Hit Points) Land Raider 1 (4 Hit Points) Baneblade 3 Banehammer 3 Banesword 3 Doomhammer 3 Hellhammer 3 Shadowsword 3 Stormlord 3 Stormsword 3 Thunderhawk Gunship 3 Lord of Skulls 3 Gargantuan Squiggoth 3 (actually is treated as a non vehicle with 8 wounds) Stompa 4 Revenant 3 Hierodule 2 (has 6 wounds) Harridan 3 (has 8 wounds) Hierophant 3 (has 10 wounds) Obelisk 2 Tesseract Vault 3 Warhound 3 Skullhamma Battle Fortress 3 Fellblade 4 Typhon 2 Cerberus 2 Spartan 2 Riptide 2 (has 5 wounds) Knight Paladin 2 Knight Errant 2 These numbers are also very close to what they had in structure points in previous versions of 40k (Stormlord has 3 Structure Points for example). And amusingly the Marauder Bomber is a Super Heavy with 3 structure points which no one has spotted yet An interesting point I found while reading through Apocalypse is that the Phantom Titan is listed with with 24HPs and the Reaver has 18 that gives you an idea of how much more resilient they are compared to a vehicle. Matt |
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