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Buildings Rules for mega-structures http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=146&t=29776 |
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Author: | Craigm999 [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
Hi, Having slept on it (and dreamed of blowing up big buildings) i've got some expanded thoughts on what i mentioned on the FB page. First of all - I like these rules, and its definitely something that needs addressed. I'm not a fan of using buildings for 'hiding' troops, or camping on objectives. I think that troops in a building should be declared to be on a side for shooting out/being shot at and for range purposes. However where our opinions might differ is regarding targeting troops in buildings (and probably forests too, but that's another matter that was covered previously) with barrage weapons. To my mind it would seem that if enemy troops were spotted going in to a building, or have been shooting from another side of it, then as long as a spotter, or the artillery its self can see the building, it should be able to be targeted (placing a barrage in the center of building and scattering as normal) - i'm not sure how the rules currently read on this, but i'll have a look today. as for mega-structures taking multiple hits, i'm broadly in favour of this, whether the simplest, most fair option would be to simply give them multiple 'wounds' or whether we open it up to a bit chance/fun and have a damage roll table for failed saves - regardless of the weapon type (barrage, vortex etc), something like - on 1D6 1-3 - Building suffers minor structural damage +1 to next damage result 4-5 - Building suffers major damage, all occupants make 0TSM save, +1 to next damage result 6 - Building destroyed - usual rules apply Anyhoo, i better get back to work! |
Author: | Apocolocyntosis [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
The Bissler wrote: these buildings can survive 2 failed destroys buildings save. A third failed result will result in full collapse as normal. Call that a mega-structure?! stat me ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Craigm999 [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
Hmm, i'd allow them an extra roll i guess... ![]() |
Author: | MagnusIlluminus [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
Bigger doesn't necessarily mean tougher. In any building, if you take out enough key support structures then the rest of it will fall. It's also possible for just a portion of a building to collapse leaving the rest reasonably intact. For those building models that have easily removed pieces, the simplest solution would be to designate each part as having it's own Structure Points and track those for each part. Models that don't have pieces could just have more SP to represent higher levels of damage absorption capability. |
Author: | The Bissler [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
Craigm999 wrote: Hi, Having slept on it (and dreamed of blowing up big buildings) i've got some expanded thoughts on what i mentioned on the FB page. First of all - I like these rules, and its definitely something that needs addressed. I'm not a fan of using buildings for 'hiding' troops, or camping on objectives. I think that troops in a building should be declared to be on a side for shooting out/being shot at and for range purposes. However where our opinions might differ is regarding targeting troops in buildings (and probably forests too, but that's another matter that was covered previously) with barrage weapons. To my mind it would seem that if enemy troops were spotted going in to a building, or have been shooting from another side of it, then as long as a spotter, or the artillery its self can see the building, it should be able to be targeted (placing a barrage in the center of building and scattering as normal) - i'm not sure how the rules currently read on this, but i'll have a look today. as for mega-structures taking multiple hits, i'm broadly in favour of this, whether the simplest, most fair option would be to simply give them multiple 'wounds' or whether we open it up to a bit chance/fun and have a damage roll table for failed saves - regardless of the weapon type (barrage, vortex etc), something like - on 1D6 1-3 - Building suffers minor structural damage +1 to next damage result 4-5 - Building suffers major damage, all occupants make 0TSM save, +1 to next damage result 6 - Building destroyed - usual rules apply Anyhoo, i better get back to work! I'm not against spotters being used to call in barrages at all - my problem is more with the situation where the spotter can see the building but not the actual infantry stands. I'm fine with things like fliers attacking infantry in the middle of the building by firing from above and I think your idea of calling in a barrage which automatically is aimed at the centre of the building is a good one. I'm happy to run with that on Saturday! I also really like the damage table, think it is an elegant solution! We'll also run with that for the large buildings, but obviously stick with the standard rules for smaller structures. You mentioned the woods also, are you unhappy with the idea of not being able to barrage infantry inside woods? |
Author: | The Bissler [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
Apocolocyntosis wrote: The Bissler wrote: these buildings can survive 2 failed destroys buildings save. A third failed result will result in full collapse as normal. Call that a mega-structure?! stat me ![]() ![]() Ha! That's not a mega-structure, that's a small city! ![]() Do you ever plan on using them again? If so, they'd look really smart if you glued mirrored card on the inside, it creates a nice reflective glass effect. |
Author: | The Bissler [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
MagnusIlluminus wrote: Bigger doesn't necessarily mean tougher. In any building, if you take out enough key support structures then the rest of it will fall. It's also possible for just a portion of a building to collapse leaving the rest reasonably intact. For those building models that have easily removed pieces, the simplest solution would be to designate each part as having it's own Structure Points and track those for each part. Models that don't have pieces could just have more SP to represent higher levels of damage absorption capability. Yep, the problem is that the buildings don't break apart because I've glued them together. SP is a good idea but I'm quite partial to Craig's idea with the damage chart. |
Author: | Apocolocyntosis [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
The Bissler wrote: Do you ever plan on using them again? If so, they'd look really smart if you glued mirrored card on the inside, it creates a nice reflective glass effect. I've used them for titan vs titan games a couple of times since the siege of terra (example bat rep: http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... 84&t=27925). Mirror card is a really good idea though, will look into that, wasn't really satisfied with the small bits of white/yellow paper. Never played with any rules for destroying them, but I was toying with the idea of making a ruined one that could replace normal ones when shot. |
Author: | The Bissler [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
If you look closely at my building pic above you can see the mirrored card in action. ![]() |
Author: | SuperMCDad [ Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
I like the idea of the damage table that Craigm suggested. Looks like it would work really well. Barrages can of course target any building they like, no matter whether there are troops inside or not. I guess the issue is where you can place the blast marker. I've always imagined that the barrage would hit the side of the building closest to the firing unit. After all, if you were attempting to destroy a building, I doubt you would aim at the roof. In the case of a mega structure especially. I would doubt that you could target a building side that you couldn't get an angle on from the firing units (e.g. on the far side of the building). The shells are unlikely to go over the building and then angle back to attack the troops firing from that side. The other thing of course is that troops in a building have always been described as being spread through multiple floors, at windows and balconies etc. I like the idea that all the units in a multi-storeyed building should be able to fire from a single side, if that is what you wish. It never made sense to me that only the stands that could fit, could fire. Really the layout of figures on the roof is sort of arbitrary and shouldn't be used as the actual position of the models. Perhaps the rule could be that barrages can only target a building side that one of the firing models can draw a line to. Any troops that have been nominated as firing from that side could be hit by the barrage, whether they are under the template or not. After all, they are all sticking their noses out the windows, taking pot shots at you. For truly mega structures, you might need to have several zones per side, as it wouldn't make sense for a barrage to hit every model along a 20-30cm or more length of wall. I'm not sure on the flier rules, however if we assume that the placement of troops on the roof is only indicating holding capacity of the building, then you could also assume that the flier needs to target the side of the building from which the troops are firing. As for moving within a building, I'm all for keeping that simple. I would say they move through it as normal. To stop camping in the centre, they must be given at least advanced orders and moved maximum distance until they get to the nominated building edge. If they are in the middle of a building, they shouldn't be able to be targeted by anyone, however the building can still be targeted and destroyed normally. Well that turned into a bit of a general building rant, and may be way more complicated than things need to be. My two cents and all. Cheers, Dave. |
Author: | The Bissler [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:19 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
We tested out Craig's table when we played recently and it worked a treat! Really pleased with it! I like your idea about as many stands being able to fire out one side. The only problem is when close combat occurs inside buildings, how would you deal with that? |
Author: | SuperMCDad [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Buildings Rules for mega-structures |
I don't think anything would really need to change with regards to close combat. I had a look at how this is handled in NetEpic, and roof position seems like a good enough mechanism. I can imagine that with a smaller building, troops would leave their position to defend against an assault coming from the rear even though they aren't touching that edge. If there is room for the attacker to move into the building, then the defenders were spread too thinly throughout the structure to prevent them gaining entry. In that case the combat moves inside, with the appropriate CAF modifiers being applied. |
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