Hi!

You could always whip up some yourself.

The laziness brigade awaits!

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
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Getting back to the Gargant situation for a minute... Here's my take on DS' excellent rules, comments welcomed - and apologies to DS for taking a few liberties with his work! I've marked my amendments to his tables in bold. After the damage tables is a new section for the End Phase that deals with Gargant fire management (or lack thereof).


Boiler Damage Table: 2D6
2-4: The boiler is damaged. Add +1 to any future damage rolls for the boiler.
5-7: The boiler is damaged and starts to lose pressure. The Gargant’s movement is reduced by ½ for the rest of the game.
8-9: The boiler is heavily damaged and loses significant pressure. Movement is reduced by ½ as above and the Gargant may no longer Charge.
10-12: The boiler is destroyed. The Gargant can no longer move and one fire is started.

Foot Damage Table: roll 2D6
2-4: The foot is slightly damaged, but keeps working as normal. Add +1 to any future damage rolls for this foot.
5-7: The foot is moderately damaged, reducing the Gargant’s movement by 5 cm. If the Gargant enters difficult terrain roll a D6. On 1-3 no additional damage is caused. On 4-6 the foot is destroyed as below.
8-9: The foot is destroyed. If only one foot is destroyed, the Gargant my only pivot in place. If both feet are destroyed, the Gargant can no longer move.
10-12: The foot is blown apart in a massive explosion that starts one fire. The Gargant may no longer move even if the other foot is still functioning.

Weapon Damage Table: roll 2D6
2-5: The weapon is slightly damaged and keeps functioning. Add +1 to future damage rolls for this weapon.
6: The weapon has been moderately damaged. Until repaired the number of hit dice or
barrage points is halved, rounded up. If the weapon has only one To Hit Dice, there is a -2 penalty for To Hit rolls. If it’s a Close Combat weapon, it can only be used on a D6 roll of 5-6.
7: The weapon has been severely damaged and may not be fired until repaired.
8: The weapon has been destroyed and cannot be repaired.
9-10: The weapon has been blown off the Gargant and scatters 2D6 cm in a random
direction. Any units hit by the weapon must make a save or be destroyed.
11-12: The weapon has been blown clean off, as above, but also a starts one fire.

Magazine Damage Table: roll 2D6
2-4: Some ammunition explodes, but the Krew is able to douse the flames.
5-8: Some ammunition explodes starting one fire, sending flames shooting through the hull. Roll on the Fire table immediately.
9-12: The magazine detonates spectacularly, starting 1D3 fires. Roll for damage against the adjacent weapon mount as well. After rolling for extra damage, total up all the fires on the Gargant and make an immediate roll on the Fire table.

Weapon Mount Damage Table: roll 2D6
2-4: The weapon mount is damaged, but keeps on functioning. Add +1 to any future damage rolls to this weapon mount.
5-7: The weapon mount is badly damaged. Roll for damage for both of the attached weapons on the Weapon table.
8-9: The weapon mount is severely damaged and can no longer support the weight of the lower weapon, which immediately falls to the ground. The lower weapon cannot be used for the rest of the game.
10-12: The weapon mount is blown off the Gargant, starting one fire. The attached weapons land 2D6 cm away in a random direction. Any unit underneath them is destroyed or loses a power/void shield.

Snapper Damage Table: roll 2D6
2-4: The Snapper is damaged, but keeps functioning. Add +1 to future damage rolls.
5-7: The Snapper is moderately damaged. It can still be used in close combat, but may not fire a blast of steam.
8-9: The Snapper is hit and loses pressure. It may not be used for the remainder of the battle and the Gargant loses the Snapper’s movement rate bonus.
10-12: The Snapper’s boiler is hit and explodes, wrecking the Snapper and starting one fire.

Head Damage Table: roll 2D6
2-4: Several of the bridge krew are injured. Add +1 to any future damage rolls against the head.
5-6: The Kaptin is wounded. In the end phase roll a D6: 1-3 the Kaptin is only slightly wounded with no adverse effects. 4-6 he is killed as below.
7-9: The Kaptin is killed. The Gargant must follow the same orders next turn while the bridge krew “elects” a new Kaptin.
10-12: The head is blown clean off, starting one fire. The Gargant must follow the same orders is used last turn and any weapons mounted in the head are destroyed. If the Gargant is fitted with a Mork or Gork head, all Orks within 25cm must make a morale check.
After the next turn, roll a D6 before changing the Gargant’s orders:
1-3: May not change orders
4-6 May change orders normally

Hull Damage Table: roll 2D6
2-6: A hull plate buckles. Add +1 to future rolls to any futures rolls against the hull.
7-9: The hull is weakened. Add +2 to any future rolls against the hull.
10-12: A massive explosion rips a hole in the hull and starts one fire.

Belly Gun Damage Table: roll 2D6
2-4: Some ammunition explodes but the Krew quickly douses the resultant fire. Add +1 to any future rolls to the belly gun.
5-7: The gun is jammed, which Grots attempt to clear. In the end phase roll a D6:
1-2: The jam cleared. The belly gun can fire normally next turn
3-4: The gun is still jammed. Roll again next turn
5-6: The is completely jammed and may not be fired for the rest of the battle
8-9: The gun is destroyed and exploding ammunition starts one fire. The gun may not be used for the rest of the battle.
10-12: The belly gun’s magazine explodes, starting 1D3 fires. The belly gun is destroyed and the explosion rips into the boiler. Roll on the Boiler damage table. After you roll for extra damage, total up all fires on the Gargant and make an immediate roll on the Fire table.

Fire Table: roll 1D6 and add number of burning fires to roll
2-3: With a few scorched Gretchin, 1D3 fires are brought under control and put out.
4-5: Chucking water from a leaky bucket, the Gretchin manage to put out one fire.
6: The fire is getting out of control. The Gargant may not move, but may fire normally.
7: The fire is out of control! Increase the number of fires already burning by one. The Gargant may not move or fire its belly gun. Any other weapons have a -1 to hit modifier due to clouds of smoke.
8: The fire reaches the magazines! Roll on the Magazine damage table for each intact magazine and apply damage, re-rolling on this table if instructed. The Gargant can’t move or fire its belly gun and all weapons have a -1 to hit modifier.
9: Huge internal explosions wreck the Gargant, destroying it and leaving a smoking, blackened heap. Any units within 2D6 cm are hit by flying debris and must make an unmodified save to avoid damage.
10+: A massive explosion rips the Gargant apart. Remove the model from the table and replace it with a crater, if available. Any units within 4D6 cm are hit by flying debris and must make an unmodified save to avoid damage.



Note: It is now a 10+ for maximum fire damage; The previous rules said to add the number of fires excluding the first to a 1D6 roll. I think that is unnecessarily confusing, and I think it is better to roll 1D6 and add the total number of fires. It amounts to the same thing really...


Now my little section to assist with fire rules:

End Phase Procedure:

This procedure is carried out so long as there is at least one fire burning at the start of the End Phase. No roll is required for a Gargant where no fires are burning.

i) Fire Control Roll
ii) Repair Roll
iii) Risk Assesment

i) Fire Control Roll: Adding the number of fires currently burning on the Gargant, roll 1D6 and refer to the Fire Control Table as shown above. Apply results of rolls. If there are any fires left burning - and the Gargant has not been destroyed, proceed to Repair Roll.

ii) Repair Roll: The GGFD (Gargant Gretchen Fire Department) try to bring the flames under control. Roll 1D6 and refer to the following chart:

1: The hapless Gretchin misunderstand what a "fire hose" is - the flamethrower they use adds another one fire to those already burning.
2-3: No fires are put out.
4-5: One fire is put out.
6: 1D3 fires are put out.

iii) Risk Assessment: If all of the fires have been put out, the Gargant is safe for the timebeing. If any fires are still burning, they will spread; add another one fire to the total. No further rolls are required this turn.


Note: For the sake of simplicity I've removed all reference of the rigger crews and instead applied a single repair roll for fires. Hopefully all of this makes sense, but please let me know if it doesn't!

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Hi!

Very good stuff Bissler!

I like that a one adds more fire instead of killing a valuable rigger. Good call!

I don't have much to add and await DS's take on it all.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
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Thank you, sir! I appreciate the compliment.

No worries! This is a team effort.

I like what you've done.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

The wording is open to change, I was trying to get into the mindset of Orky madness. As much as I hope it make you smile, it's a bit stupid. Essentially the Gretchin succeed only in fanning the flames! Feel free to remove the joke and reword!



Cheers, DS, I appreciate it! There's another international coming up so I'll test the fire rules then.

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Hi!

As the damage tables continue to evolve, I wanted to bring up something I noticed in my test games.

1. How do we handle an already damaged (or destroyed) damage location?

The way I approached it was that if you damaged an already damaged location you rolled and if it was the same or lower you bumped up the damage result one step worse.

It worked okay, but it was not the greatest solution.

I toyed with the idea that for additional damage, you would roll a d3 (plus any penetration bonus) and add that to the PREVIOUS damage result.

For example if you rolled a 7 on the damage table and damaged it again, you would roll a d3 (plus penetration) and add that to the previous 7 for a new total and higher damage.

I'm not totally sold on this due to the fact of keeping track of what is being rolled.

The one I am warming up to, is why not add an extra d6 for damaging an already damaged location? We do it for close combat to simulate outnumbering and it works well.

To keep book keeping simple you only even get ONE extra d6 for a previously damaged location. If you roll equal or less than the damage level already had then no effect.

This has the advantage of no book keeping, easy to remember (if its already damaged roll 3d6+penetration). Only rolling better than the current damage counts.

Finally if the location is destroyed, I don't think the shot should be "void". The simple solution is to randomly roll for an adjacent location and damage that one. I think having hit locations be damage sponges is a bit silly.

Thoughts?

Primarch

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Primarch


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Good grief man, do you or do you not want Titans to be king?!!!

Leave the damage tables alone!

Seriously though, I do think it is unnecessary as the damage tables work fine as they are. I think that forcing damage to an adjacent location is fine though. I find it frustrating when I score a "hit" and the target dice make it scatter to a previously destroyed location.

On the other hand, does that mean a hit that misses the desired location because of scattering target dice should hit the nearest valid location? I'm thinking of the situation where you target a wing location and get a left or right which misses because there is no hit locatoin.

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Hi!

But what do you do when you damage an already damaged location?

"Something" has to happen. Or do you just roll damage and if it is not better nothing happens?

When you hit a damaged location it should not be the same as hitting an undamaged target.

How are you playing it?

Primarch

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^^This. Something tells me you will not find that satisfactory.

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Hi!

That also explains why you find titans so "durable".

I've never played it that way, even back at the games origin. Of course there are a lot of ways of doing it (not only the two ways I mentioned), but I have always felt it strange to give a previously damaged location a pass like this.

Oh well, we'll see how others approach this. It's not like I haven't played epic with my own house rules for years.

Primarch

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It's interesting to see we play damage in such a fundamentally different way. While I would also like to know how others play it, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn I've been doing it wrong all this time.

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For cumulative damage, why not use the current rules for damaged locations:

Page 46 Core Rulebook

If a location is hit more than once, roll for damage normally but the second and following hits add a cumulative +1 to the roll. Any result above 6 should be treated as a 6.
The damage bonus is permanent and relates to the exact hit-location that has been hit.

Would still work with these tables.

With regards to hitting a destroyed location, I would say to look at the rules on page 46 again, but there are two sets of rules that contradict each other.
Firstly it says:

Pick a location and roll the scatter dice. A shot that deviates to a blank or already destroyed location, or a location covered by an obstacle is considered a miss.

Then below it says:

If a location has been destroyed or blown off, the shot will hit the hull (if that wouldn’t make sense, choose another logical location) with an additional -1 TSM.

Odd

Anyhow, how about this.

If you hit a location that is already destroyed, consult the damage table. If the current destroyed status is not the highest result on that locations damage table, then immediately apply the highest result without rolling any dice.
If the destroyed status is the highest result on the damage table, then roll for scatter (again) to see if another location suffers damage from additional flashbacks or explosions. No saving throw is made for the hit on this location (go straight to the damage roll). If the second scatter brings up a location that is blank (i.e misses), then the resultant explosion has not been directed towards any other of the titans systems.

What this basically means is that if you hit a destroyed location, if it can be, then the location will be blown off. If the location can't be blown off, then you get the chance to damage an adjacent location, but if the destroyed location is on the edge of the template, the resultant secondary explosions might just vent to atmosphere rather than hit something further in the titan.

With regards, to hitting blown off locations, I would go with treating it as a hit against an adjacent location of the attackers choice.

Matt

Ha! We were both playing it wrong!



Nice solution! This gets the thumbs-up from me!

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Hi!

Who would of thought reading the rules was a good thing...

Bissler, for the alternate damage tables the bonus should be +2 instead of +1 as the rule states to keep the math consistent (you roll 2d6 instead of 1).

Other that that we're good.

Primarch

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Thanks - to make this more obvious, do you want me to put a note about this on the damage sheets?

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